Meet the Maker: Eden Cider Tasting & SipScout Party

Eden Cider Tasting and Meet the Maker Event

SipScout Craft Alcohol Membership Club – January 2024

This month we’re welcoming Riley Duffy of Eden Specialty Ciders to our SipScout party! We learn all about cider making and Eden Ciders as we taste through four of Eden’s craft ciders and one of their ice ciders.   

This month our SipScout members are sipping on:

1) Eden Deep Cut Cider
2) Eden Troc Star Cider
3) Eden Brut Rosé Cider
4) Eden Tree Beard Cider
5) Eden Heirloom Ice Cider

Ready to visit or buy some of the delicious featured craft booze for yourself? Good thinking! Visit our friends at Press Then Press to stock up on Eden Ciders and other great craft ciders.

Highlights

 

3:25 Introduction to Riley Duffy of Eden Specialty Ciders
7:01 Guest question: Is Cider a wine? Where does cider fit into my drinking lifestyle?
11:12 Deep Cut Cider Tasting
22:39 Guest question: What makes certain apples good or not good for cider?
31:07 Troc Star Cider Tasting
33:55 Explanation of residual sugar in cider compared to common beverage sugar content 38:00 Guest Question: Where is the future of cider headed?
43:04 Brut Rosé Cider Tasting
45:46 Tree Beard Cider Tasting
50:07 Heirloom Ice Cider Tasting
58:29 Cheers and transition to our live Happy Hour

Upcoming SipScout kits feature an aquavit and Easter cocktails, Undiscovered White Wine Tasting, and more! All SipScout kits include enough alcohol for 2 guests to share and often some fun, extra bonus goodies to up your home drinking game as well! Join SipScout or give the gift of SipScout today!

At Eden Ciders, we’re passionate about the quality of flavor that comes from unique apple varieties grown by local, small-scale orchards in Vermont. We produce a wide range of ciders, from driest to sweetest, with different methods of production, using single varieties and blends. Consistent through everything we do is a commitment to supporting small-scale family orchards, to the use of holistic and regenerative orcharding practices, and to rare tannic and heirloom apple varieties grown expressly for cider making. You can taste the fantastic fruit character of these apples in our cider.

Eden Ciders was founded in 2007 by Eleanor & Albert Leger when they purchased an abandoned dairy farm in West Charleston and made an experimental batch of Ice Cider in the basement of their home. Slowly, they expanded the team to include amazing people like head orchardist Ben Applegate, and built connections with other Vermont orchards passionate about sustainable agriculture and working with our terroir. Our mission, supporting the local economy and preserving the working landscape, is only possible because of our team and customers like you.

Eden Specialty Ciders

https://edenciders.com

Read the transcript

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hello hello everyone

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Thirsty Thursday

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yes always on Thirsty Thursdays

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getting our weekend started off right

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um we are here tonight with Riley Duffy of Eden

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Specialty Ciders

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we are so excited to have you here Riley

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hi thanks for having me

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happy to be here

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our pleasure

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um and so tonight

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we are talking all about Eden Specialty Ciders

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I have been a really big fan of Eden ciders

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gosh I don’t even remember

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I’m trying to think of where I first discovered them

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before you knew me

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so at least 6 years I’ve known about Eden um

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is that so interesting

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where did I first discover you guys Riley

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um maybe at cider festival

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maybe at a cider festival probably

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um but yeah

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and you know

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many of you know

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I’m born and raised in Massachusetts

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so when I found that there was this Vermont cidery

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I was very excited about it

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and besides that connection

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then I tasted their ciders and just fell in love

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like that you know

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I have a really long cider history

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um I studied abroad in Spain

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got to do the whole Spanish cider thing

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then came back here and everything was sweet and weird

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and I didn’t know what was going on

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um and so this was really

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I feel like Eden was one of my very early introductions

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to the craft cider revolution

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as I like to call it here in the States

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moving away from kind of the Jolly Rancher

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sweet ciders that were so prevalent for a long time

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and moving into the more heirloom dry tart

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feels like you’re biting into an apple kind of ciders

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and so I am thrilled that be sharing Eden Cider

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with all of you

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um this month

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and getting to introduce you to Riley as well

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and my background with respect to cider

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initially was you know

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moonlit at an Irish pub and we served Strongbow

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and that was about it

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and I feel like in no small part

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my decision to pursue and become a certified cider

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professional

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uh was due to the introduction of Eden ciders

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thanks to you little lady

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uh yeah when I first met Evan

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he was all about wine

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only about wine Sommelier

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like really deep in the wine world for sure

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and yeah this

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this one in particular

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the last one we’ll try today was life affirming

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a revelation

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life affirming

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writing down okay

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someone from

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because you’ve had ice wines plenty of times right

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and so you had a comparison point

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as well to what an ice cider is

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but yeah we’re

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we’re thrilled and delighted to

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have Riley here with us today

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and talk about these beautiful ciders from Eden

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um yeah and so we’re getting ahead of ourselves

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I did we just

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we’re so excited about cider

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we just start drinking cider

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we just started talking about our passion for cider

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so um now that we have a bunch of people here

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let me just quickly reintroduce myself

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for those of you who haven’t met us before

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I am Suzanne

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I’m the founder of The Crafty Cask

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where we are all about

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celebrating and supporting craft alcohol makers

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like the fabulous Eden Specialty Ciders

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and my name is Evan Rothrock

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uh certified

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Sommelier certified

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cited professional as uh

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we alluded to there

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um and yeah

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I guess that’s enough for me

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craft booze enthusiast and nerd

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if you have any questions about any craft booze

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nerd alert this is your guy for sure and Riley

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would you like to introduce yourself yeah

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hi I’m Riley Duffy

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I am the National Sales

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Director for Eden Specialty Ciders

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um I’m also very involved in the production aspect

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my husband is the cider maker at Eden

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um I’ve been with Eden for about 4 years

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I come from the wine world

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um so I worked in natural wine for about a decade

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and I call myself a cider defector

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because I really think that cider needs champions

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and much like you all

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Eden really changed things for me

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um I met the founder

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Eleanor Leger

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she and her husband started Eden in uh 2007 um

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and Eleanor has a very interesting entre into the world

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and is a very big player in American cider

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uh she’s the

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the board president of the American Cider Association

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and has been really instrumental in

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sort of getting a lot

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of these interesting cider styles

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recognized as what they are

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both in consumers and sort of anecdotal

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drinking culture

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and also with the government um

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so with the

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the TTB and recognizing ice cider as its own um

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beverage in the

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in the United States

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ice cider is the only North American uh

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dessert cider

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and it’s something that we can claim

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and there’s very few things that we

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as New World livers can claim haha

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so that’s pretty exciting

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um but I don’t wanna get too ahead of myself yeah

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this is yeah

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and I think it sounds like

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we’re all so passionate about this stuff that you know

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bear with us everyone

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this is probably gonna be

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one of those boozy rabbit holes where we tan

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gentleize and kind of go down different paths

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but for those who back around

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yeah of course

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it’ll be a spiral yeah

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that’s right

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that’s right

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and so for those of you who are new to us

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um this month

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and her just joining us for the first time

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what we typically do is for the first half hour

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45 minutes we kinda keep it in this format here

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so we can have this conversation

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do the education

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teach you all about this taste through everything

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and everyone can hear it all um

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and then as we kinda wind that down

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we will promote

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any of you who wanna be panelists as well

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so that you can turn on your cameras

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on mute yourselves

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and then we’ll just kind of join in happy hour style

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after you’ve

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had a little bit of your drink or two

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and our loosen

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we’re all loosen up and ready to just chitchat um

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but while we’re in this webinar format

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please please

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please use the web in our chat

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so if you have questions about what we’re talking about

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if you have

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random questions that we’re not talking about

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that is totally fine

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and we will make sure

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I’m keeping an eye on it

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and so I’ll

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make sure to get those questions in to Evan and Riley

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um but yeah

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let’s end yourself and myself

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and myself yes

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I know a lot about cider

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and I’m very passionate about cider

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and I’m throw that

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I turned you on to it

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and that ciders a big part of our life um

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so let’s crack into our first one

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this is the tasting order that we’re gonna do here

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we’re gonna go with Deep Cut first

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and then Troc Star

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Brute Rosé and then Tree Beard

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does that sound about right to you

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the order Riley

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yeah great um

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and yeah and so I’d love to hear in the chat

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while we’re getting started

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and we’ll be pouring our first one here

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and poor Riley

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she’s in a hopel right now

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and her cider is stuck in Wisconsin

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and so she does not

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get to taste along with us

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but luckily she’s

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she’s very familiar

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as she has said

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I’ve had it once or twice

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yeah great um

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and so I would

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but I’d love to hear from all of you

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kind of if you’re cider curious

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cider enthusiast

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if you know a lot about cider

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you know and if you have any

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favorite cider

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brands that you know of

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just to kinda

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orient us a little bit

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with what your familiarity is with cider

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if you wanna

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throw some thoughts in the webinar chat as we’re

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getting started here

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um oh Jay starting us off with a great first question

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why is cider not a wine

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and I will add on to that

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for everyone

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why is cider not a wine

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and when do you drink

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cider right

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we all know when to drink wine

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like we drink it with food

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like do you drink it like a wine

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does it replace wine

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is it replace beer

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is it like how

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how do you where does it fit in your drinking life

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as well oh yeah

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that’s a good

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uh addendum

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because I feel like that’s part of the

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the challenge with cider

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a little bit

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is people you know

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they have a steak

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and they go and

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get a red wine

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and they have a burger

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and they go and get a beer and like

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they just don’t think about

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when did you have cider

249
00:07:40,533 –> 00:07:41,400
get into that dialogue

250
00:07:41,400 –> 00:07:43,400
and so I’d love to hear about that

251
00:07:43,400 –> 00:07:44,866
as we talk about

252
00:07:44,866 –> 00:07:46,333
why is cider not a wine

253
00:07:46,333 –> 00:07:48,366
let’s start there well

254
00:07:49,033 –> 00:07:51,366
I uh I think that

255
00:07:51,700 –> 00:07:52,866
probably Riley

256
00:07:52,866 –> 00:07:54,133
has some strong

257
00:07:54,133 –> 00:07:54,900
opinions about

258
00:07:54,900 –> 00:07:55,633
this you know

259
00:07:55,633 –> 00:07:57,800
the way that she nodded there yeah

260
00:07:57,800 –> 00:07:59,033
go for it Riley yeah

261
00:07:59,033 –> 00:08:00,300
why don’t you take the lead on this one

262
00:08:00,300 –> 00:08:01,400
cause I feel

263
00:08:01,400 –> 00:08:02,500
a certain way

264
00:08:02,866 –> 00:08:04,033
I would say

265
00:08:04,033 –> 00:08:05,700
this is an easy answer for me

266
00:08:05,700 –> 00:08:06,833
cider is wine

267
00:08:07,733 –> 00:08:09,200
it’s just made with apples

268
00:08:09,266 –> 00:08:10,633
in the same way

269
00:08:10,666 –> 00:08:12,133
I think that um

270
00:08:12,333 –> 00:08:14,800
I think that there are two sort of

271
00:08:14,833 –> 00:08:15,933
categories of cider

272
00:08:15,933 –> 00:08:16,600
in the market

273
00:08:16,600 –> 00:08:18,833
that can be a little bit confusing

274
00:08:19,333 –> 00:08:21,133
there is a category

275
00:08:21,433 –> 00:08:24,066
that is made for easy

276
00:08:24,066 –> 00:08:24,866
consumption

277
00:08:25,500 –> 00:08:27,033
for a low price point

278
00:08:27,033 –> 00:08:29,500
and something sort of

279
00:08:31,400 –> 00:08:36,266
made with ingredients like concentrated apple juice

280
00:08:36,266 –> 00:08:37,733
some sugar some yeast

281
00:08:37,733 –> 00:08:40,033
very much made um

282
00:08:40,866 –> 00:08:43,100
I don’t want to say like a beer

283
00:08:43,466 –> 00:08:44,800
it’s impossible like a beer

284
00:08:44,800 –> 00:08:46,166
that’s kind of a bugaboo

285
00:08:46,400 –> 00:08:48,400
but um it’s put together

286
00:08:48,400 –> 00:08:49,666
it’s made to taste the same

287
00:08:49,666 –> 00:08:52,366
every single time there’s a recipe that’s followed

288
00:08:52,666 –> 00:08:54,033
there’s that boom

289
00:08:54,033 –> 00:08:55,833
that’s not what we’re doing

290
00:08:55,933 –> 00:08:58,933
yeah um what we are doing is pressing fresh apples

291
00:08:58,933 –> 00:09:00,633
and fermenting them

292
00:09:00,633 –> 00:09:01,700
and that’s it

293
00:09:01,700 –> 00:09:03,033
just like with a wine

294
00:09:03,033 –> 00:09:04,333
you would take fresh grapes

295
00:09:04,333 –> 00:09:05,933
press them and ferment them

296
00:09:06,000 –> 00:09:08,933
it’s it’s identical processes really

297
00:09:09,133 –> 00:09:12,133
um and yeah

298
00:09:12,133 –> 00:09:13,333
and also don’t

299
00:09:13,333 –> 00:09:16,866
I guess I would add that it’s a fruit

300
00:09:16,866 –> 00:09:20,000
well saying that cider is a wine

301
00:09:21,300 –> 00:09:25,733
with wine being defined as a fermented fruit beverage

302
00:09:26,533 –> 00:09:27,800
there is enough

303
00:09:27,800 –> 00:09:30,066
examples and expressions in history and tradition

304
00:09:30,066 –> 00:09:35,400
of making wine from apples that it has its own name

305
00:09:35,400 –> 00:09:39,066
and if there was a lot of blackberry wine that was made

306
00:09:39,066 –> 00:09:41,833
and multiple cultures made blackberry wine

307
00:09:41,833 –> 00:09:43,500
and probably over time

308
00:09:43,500 –> 00:09:45,300
it would have developed its own name

309
00:09:45,300 –> 00:09:46,733
yeah yeah that’s fair

310
00:09:46,733 –> 00:09:48,833
I think one of the things that

311
00:09:48,900 –> 00:09:50,700
maybe causes a little confusion

312
00:09:50,700 –> 00:09:52,000
it is the carbonation

313
00:09:52,266 –> 00:09:53,866
honestly I think that’s where people think like

314
00:09:53,866 –> 00:09:55,833
this is more like a beer than a wine

315
00:09:55,900 –> 00:09:58,733
simply because it’s often carbonated

316
00:09:58,733 –> 00:10:01,300
so help me understand a little bit

317
00:10:01,400 –> 00:10:02,866
so it is a wine

318
00:10:02,866 –> 00:10:05,100
but why is it mostly carbonated

319
00:10:05,100 –> 00:10:07,233
like versus wine is not mostly carbonated

320
00:10:07,233 –> 00:10:09,000
what’s that kind of piece about

321
00:10:09,000 –> 00:10:11,166
it really is um

322
00:10:11,400 –> 00:10:14,633
it is to sort of appease the modern palette

323
00:10:15,733 –> 00:10:17,866
there is still cider on the market

324
00:10:17,866 –> 00:10:19,800
we make a few still ciders

325
00:10:20,200 –> 00:10:21,033
it’s beautiful

326
00:10:21,033 –> 00:10:21,600
it’s lovely

327
00:10:21,600 –> 00:10:23,300
it’s very wine like

328
00:10:23,900 –> 00:10:28,833
I think that it’s a matter of

329
00:10:30,466 –> 00:10:35,566
the tradition of what sort of happened when you know

330
00:10:36,100 –> 00:10:38,866
post prohibition cider never really came back

331
00:10:38,866 –> 00:10:42,033
and when it did it came back as a as sort of a bubbly

332
00:10:43,533 –> 00:10:44,433
it’s beverage

333
00:10:44,433 –> 00:10:46,100
and that’s what was recognized

334
00:10:46,100 –> 00:10:48,333
and that’s just sort of what’s taken hold

335
00:10:48,466 –> 00:10:53,200
um I would say it adds a lot of

336
00:10:53,200 –> 00:10:57,233
of nuance and often cider can be pretty acidic

337
00:10:57,733 –> 00:11:00,766
so it sort of helps mitigate that

338
00:11:01,833 –> 00:11:03,200
but I think it’s mostly

339
00:11:03,200 –> 00:11:05,400
just because it’s always been done that way

340
00:11:05,466 –> 00:11:07,166
yeah yeah interesting

341
00:11:07,233 –> 00:11:09,133
um yeah and to that let’s

342
00:11:09,133 –> 00:11:12,233
let’s do a little quick cheers everyone to our first

343
00:11:12,233 –> 00:11:13,700
our first deep cut

344
00:11:13,700 –> 00:11:14,300
we’re starting out with

345
00:11:14,300 –> 00:11:16,533
and I just took a sip of this and I’ve had it before

346
00:11:16,533 –> 00:11:19,033
but man it is so

347
00:11:19,133 –> 00:11:20,966
it’s so like earthy

348
00:11:21,000 –> 00:11:21,933
there’s something just so

349
00:11:21,933 –> 00:11:23,800
like earthy about it that I love

350
00:11:23,800 –> 00:11:25,900
like it has like a weight to it

351
00:11:25,900 –> 00:11:27,933
kind of an even like the color of it

352
00:11:27,933 –> 00:11:30,266
so Riley tell us a little bit about this first

353
00:11:30,266 –> 00:11:31,133
this first expression

354
00:11:31,133 –> 00:11:32,733
deep cut yeah

355
00:11:32,733 –> 00:11:35,300
so this is a perfect sort of

356
00:11:35,500 –> 00:11:37,500
analog from our wine conversation

357
00:11:38,200 –> 00:11:39,000
that weight

358
00:11:39,000 –> 00:11:42,300
that a lot of the aromatics are coming from tannin

359
00:11:42,333 –> 00:11:43,566
from the apple

360
00:11:43,866 –> 00:11:45,000
just like in wine

361
00:11:45,200 –> 00:11:46,500
apples have tannin

362
00:11:46,866 –> 00:11:48,700
uh apples have tannin all throughout

363
00:11:48,700 –> 00:11:50,000
they have it in the seeds

364
00:11:50,000 –> 00:11:52,100
the flesh and the skin

365
00:11:52,200 –> 00:11:55,433
whereas wine only has tannin in the skin

366
00:11:55,600 –> 00:11:57,800
um so you’re able to get a lot of extraction and

367
00:11:57,800 –> 00:12:00,033
and tannin is sort of what dries your mouth

368
00:12:00,033 –> 00:12:01,933
so acid makes your mouth water

369
00:12:02,066 –> 00:12:03,900
tannin sort of dries you out

370
00:12:04,100 –> 00:12:07,000
and for everyone else who left an earthiness that’s

371
00:12:07,000 –> 00:12:08,500
that’s what you’re really tasting there

372
00:12:08,500 –> 00:12:12,033
so we actually aged some of our tannic cider

373
00:12:12,033 –> 00:12:15,333
heirloom cider specific apples um

374
00:12:15,333 –> 00:12:18,200
we set a little bit of the really special stuff aside

375
00:12:18,333 –> 00:12:21,433
for a couple of years to age on its own and really

376
00:12:21,433 –> 00:12:22,833
develop beautifully

377
00:12:23,000 –> 00:12:25,200
and then we add a little of that tannic cider

378
00:12:25,200 –> 00:12:27,566
into a fresh fermented cider

379
00:12:27,666 –> 00:12:30,833
so we have a fresh base of Macintosh and Empire apples

380
00:12:30,833 –> 00:12:32,433
very lively acidity

381
00:12:32,600 –> 00:12:34,533
really fruity beautiful

382
00:12:34,666 –> 00:12:36,666
and then we add that tannic cider

383
00:12:36,666 –> 00:12:37,933
and it’s almost like

384
00:12:37,933 –> 00:12:40,600
I like in it to adding salt to a baked good

385
00:12:40,700 –> 00:12:43,866
it gives that baseline to almost taste against

386
00:12:43,866 –> 00:12:45,233
so you get that earthiness

387
00:12:45,233 –> 00:12:47,733
but this like bright fruit on top of it

388
00:12:47,733 –> 00:12:48,400
and it’s sort of

389
00:12:48,400 –> 00:12:51,333
because of the foil that both of those come through

390
00:12:52,000 –> 00:12:53,866
yeah it’s really quite beautiful

391
00:12:53,866 –> 00:12:54,866
and if those if

392
00:12:54,866 –> 00:12:56,800
for those of you who are taking your first sip of this

393
00:12:56,800 –> 00:12:58,533
and starting out with deep cut with us

394
00:12:58,533 –> 00:13:01,066
you know if you’re not super familiar with cider

395
00:13:01,066 –> 00:13:03,766
or you’ve only had kind of more of the mass made ciders

396
00:13:04,100 –> 00:13:06,233
this is probably feeling pretty different

397
00:13:06,233 –> 00:13:07,733
this is probably feeling a little

398
00:13:07,733 –> 00:13:08,800
ain’t no Martinelli

399
00:13:08,800 –> 00:13:10,300
yeah yeah for sure

400
00:13:10,300 –> 00:13:10,900
and you know

401
00:13:10,900 –> 00:13:12,666
time and place for all of those things

402
00:13:12,666 –> 00:13:14,000
but like this

403
00:13:14,233 –> 00:13:15,600
this is nuanced

404
00:13:15,600 –> 00:13:17,833
and I really just love this

405
00:13:17,833 –> 00:13:19,933
and you just touched on Jay’s other question there

406
00:13:19,933 –> 00:13:20,833
which is you know

407
00:13:20,833 –> 00:13:22,233
wine can often be barrel aged

408
00:13:22,233 –> 00:13:23,300
they make barrel aged cider

409
00:13:23,300 –> 00:13:25,033
and the answer is absolutely

410
00:13:25,033 –> 00:13:26,200
they make barrel aged ciders

411
00:13:26,200 –> 00:13:27,233
and they are

412
00:13:27,233 –> 00:13:28,100
they are pretty fun

413
00:13:28,100 –> 00:13:28,800
barrel aged ciders

414
00:13:28,800 –> 00:13:31,666
and also this last one you’ll see later is a hop cider

415
00:13:31,666 –> 00:13:32,833
right and so

416
00:13:32,866 –> 00:13:34,133
and there’s fruited ciders

417
00:13:34,133 –> 00:13:35,433
which will get some examples of

418
00:13:35,433 –> 00:13:36,433
so there are a lot of

419
00:13:36,433 –> 00:13:41,033
a lot of trends that you’re seeing in beer and wine um

420
00:13:41,100 –> 00:13:43,066
you can find those examples

421
00:13:43,066 –> 00:13:44,466
in cider nowadays as well

422
00:13:44,466 –> 00:13:47,466
and I think that’s one of the cool things that we are

423
00:13:47,466 –> 00:13:49,200
on the cusp of here in this country

424
00:13:49,200 –> 00:13:51,433
is developing and understanding

425
00:13:52,666 –> 00:13:55,433
both in the legal sense for the federal government

426
00:13:55,866 –> 00:13:57,600
but also with consumers

427
00:13:57,600 –> 00:14:02,500
so that there’s a clarity when you go to buy cider

428
00:14:02,633 –> 00:14:03,800
because you know

429
00:14:03,800 –> 00:14:04,600
historically

430
00:14:04,666 –> 00:14:06,400
and I think that at the outset

431
00:14:06,400 –> 00:14:08,900
when we started making cider or

432
00:14:09,466 –> 00:14:13,166
restarted making cider here in this country um

433
00:14:13,233 –> 00:14:16,333
there is an effort to kind of replicate and duplicate

434
00:14:16,733 –> 00:14:18,700
traditional styles of cider making in France

435
00:14:18,700 –> 00:14:21,066
and in England and in Spain

436
00:14:21,066 –> 00:14:24,500
yeah and there

437
00:14:24,666 –> 00:14:27,533
that’s just the way cider is made

438
00:14:27,800 –> 00:14:29,700
and here we’re

439
00:14:29,700 –> 00:14:31,700
needing to figure out a way to convey that

440
00:14:31,700 –> 00:14:34,566
because people that aren’t from Asturias

441
00:14:35,033 –> 00:14:37,933
don’t understand that this is an Australian cider

442
00:14:37,933 –> 00:14:39,133
and that doesn’t make sense to them

443
00:14:39,133 –> 00:14:40,633
so figuring out a common

444
00:14:40,633 –> 00:14:42,733
shared language so that it can be conveyed

445
00:14:42,733 –> 00:14:45,733
and then they can pick up a camp cider and

446
00:14:45,866 –> 00:14:46,733
have some confidence

447
00:14:46,733 –> 00:14:48,933
and recognition of what they can expect to give

448
00:14:48,933 –> 00:14:52,400
I mean even the usage of the word dry and cider is not

449
00:14:52,400 –> 00:14:54,533
or is not regulated right

450
00:14:54,533 –> 00:14:56,566
and so there is a lot of confusion where

451
00:14:56,633 –> 00:14:58,600
makers will put dry cider on there

452
00:14:58,600 –> 00:14:59,600
because they know that

453
00:14:59,600 –> 00:15:01,833
a lot of people are now looking for dry ciders

454
00:15:02,066 –> 00:15:02,700
but it’s not dry

455
00:15:02,700 –> 00:15:03,666
it’s pretty sweet

456
00:15:03,666 –> 00:15:04,833
and then you’re disappointed

457
00:15:04,900 –> 00:15:06,266
and then you don’t know what’s going on there

458
00:15:06,266 –> 00:15:06,866
and you think

459
00:15:06,866 –> 00:15:08,066
that’s what a dry cider is

460
00:15:08,066 –> 00:15:09,733
and then you give up on cider all together

461
00:15:09,733 –> 00:15:11,033
and the same thing goes with wine

462
00:15:11,033 –> 00:15:11,533
too you know

463
00:15:11,533 –> 00:15:12,600
a lot of people

464
00:15:14,533 –> 00:15:18,800
request and believe that they like dry wine

465
00:15:19,733 –> 00:15:22,733
but there’s this kind of crossover where

466
00:15:22,733 –> 00:15:25,566
they actually want wine that

467
00:15:26,100 –> 00:15:27,666
doesn’t have a lot of tannins

468
00:15:27,666 –> 00:15:29,200
or does have a lot of tannins

469
00:15:29,200 –> 00:15:32,266
as opposed to does have sugar residually or doesn’t

470
00:15:32,266 –> 00:15:34,266
yeah terms are used kind of interchange right

471
00:15:34,266 –> 00:15:34,900
or misused yeah

472
00:15:34,900 –> 00:15:37,133
they’re not codified yeah

473
00:15:37,266 –> 00:15:39,366
Jill’s asking a great question um

474
00:15:39,666 –> 00:15:42,133
Riley take us into the production of cider a little bit

475
00:15:42,133 –> 00:15:44,266
help everyone understand how cider is

476
00:15:44,266 –> 00:15:46,700
is made and how long that kinda takes

477
00:15:46,800 –> 00:15:52,500
sure um so the short answer is it depends

478
00:15:52,500 –> 00:15:57,800
um typically a fermentation is finished

479
00:15:57,800 –> 00:16:01,000
so if we’re just taking a standard cider press

480
00:16:01,000 –> 00:16:04,033
it start a fermentation um

481
00:16:04,933 –> 00:16:08,533
it depends on if we wanna use native yeast

482
00:16:08,533 –> 00:16:10,200
or if we wanna pitch yeast

483
00:16:10,400 –> 00:16:12,566
so that’s our first deciding factor

484
00:16:12,833 –> 00:16:15,700
so native yeast is what exists on the fruit

485
00:16:15,700 –> 00:16:17,300
yeast is everywhere in the air

486
00:16:17,300 –> 00:16:18,100
on our skin

487
00:16:18,100 –> 00:16:19,900
on the fruit um

488
00:16:19,900 –> 00:16:24,700
and if you press that fresh without washing it off

489
00:16:25,000 –> 00:16:28,100
then that fruit will start to ferment

490
00:16:28,200 –> 00:16:30,533
once it all kind of melts together

491
00:16:30,533 –> 00:16:33,333
once it starts really like getting together

492
00:16:33,333 –> 00:16:35,133
think if you just left sort of

493
00:16:35,600 –> 00:16:37,833
a jar of apple sauce on your counter

494
00:16:37,833 –> 00:16:40,200
it would probably start to get kind of stinky

495
00:16:40,200 –> 00:16:41,233
and honestly

496
00:16:41,533 –> 00:16:43,866
that’s partially how some of you know

497
00:16:43,866 –> 00:16:47,266
wine spider kind of got invented originally

498
00:16:47,266 –> 00:16:48,233
right exactly

499
00:16:50,833 –> 00:16:52,633
what’s happening out there and yeah

500
00:16:52,633 –> 00:16:54,000
and so are you to try this

501
00:16:54,000 –> 00:16:56,533
yeah yeah I know

502
00:16:56,533 –> 00:16:59,400
I always joke that a native yeast

503
00:16:59,466 –> 00:17:01,633
I like to think of it is air war

504
00:17:01,633 –> 00:17:03,300
like so we all hear about air war

505
00:17:03,300 –> 00:17:05,933
where it’s like a taste of place and the soil

506
00:17:06,033 –> 00:17:06,500
and I’m like

507
00:17:06,500 –> 00:17:07,500
the yeast is like

508
00:17:07,500 –> 00:17:08,266
it’s in the air

509
00:17:08,266 –> 00:17:11,933
and this is what like is going on in this place

510
00:17:12,466 –> 00:17:14,133
replicate that somewhere else

511
00:17:14,533 –> 00:17:15,600
and so you know

512
00:17:15,600 –> 00:17:17,733
it’s really giving you a more of a taste of place

513
00:17:17,733 –> 00:17:19,933
if you’re using that native east yes

514
00:17:20,233 –> 00:17:23,900
and part of that is that it takes longer to ferment

515
00:17:24,433 –> 00:17:27,433
um and that longer fermentation

516
00:17:27,700 –> 00:17:31,700
gets a lot more aromatics out of the fermentation

517
00:17:31,900 –> 00:17:34,500
so the that long fermentation

518
00:17:34,500 –> 00:17:36,400
makes the yeast really stressed out

519
00:17:36,400 –> 00:17:37,466
it makes the yeast

520
00:17:37,466 –> 00:17:39,933
think that it’s not going to get what it needs

521
00:17:39,933 –> 00:17:43,200
so it starts working really hard for its nutrition

522
00:17:43,200 –> 00:17:44,166
from the sugar

523
00:17:44,233 –> 00:17:47,433
um and that’s how we get really neat

524
00:17:47,433 –> 00:17:49,666
like secondary and

525
00:17:49,666 –> 00:17:52,933
and almost tertiary notes like this tastes like apples

526
00:17:52,933 –> 00:17:57,133
but other things is largely due to long

527
00:17:57,133 –> 00:17:58,500
cold fermentation

528
00:17:58,900 –> 00:18:01,300
now we also

529
00:18:01,300 –> 00:18:02,333
in some of our cans

530
00:18:02,333 –> 00:18:03,400
we will pitch east

531
00:18:03,400 –> 00:18:05,333
which is a selected um

532
00:18:05,333 –> 00:18:09,000
white wine East E40 and uh

533
00:18:09,000 –> 00:18:12,033
that kicks off the fermentation a little faster

534
00:18:12,033 –> 00:18:13,700
so that we might

535
00:18:13,800 –> 00:18:15,933
we might make a better

536
00:18:16,200 –> 00:18:18,700
condition for the yeast to ferment happily

537
00:18:18,866 –> 00:18:20,800
so that means we might

538
00:18:20,800 –> 00:18:22,200
temperature control the tank so the

539
00:18:22,200 –> 00:18:23,400
it’s a little warmer

540
00:18:23,400 –> 00:18:26,366
so the yeast will be really cozy and get going

541
00:18:26,633 –> 00:18:31,433
um and that gives us a little bit more control over uh

542
00:18:31,433 –> 00:18:33,600
over the length of the fermentation

543
00:18:33,600 –> 00:18:34,700
how the yeast reacts

544
00:18:34,700 –> 00:18:35,733
and I’m seeing this question

545
00:18:35,733 –> 00:18:38,033
E40 is just the strain of the yeast

546
00:18:38,033 –> 00:18:39,233
that’s just its name

547
00:18:39,233 –> 00:18:40,833
and if you think of it like when

548
00:18:40,833 –> 00:18:41,800
when wine makers

549
00:18:42,433 –> 00:18:43,733
brewers everyone

550
00:18:43,733 –> 00:18:44,200
like I mean

551
00:18:44,200 –> 00:18:46,700
there’s probably like books of yeast right

552
00:18:46,700 –> 00:18:47,500
like that oh

553
00:18:47,666 –> 00:18:49,500
like there’s like a catalogue yeah

554
00:18:49,500 –> 00:18:50,900
there’s like a catalogue you can get

555
00:18:50,900 –> 00:18:52,233
that’s just like what

556
00:18:52,233 –> 00:18:54,066
and they all have different flavor profiles

557
00:18:54,066 –> 00:18:54,600
they all have different

558
00:18:54,600 –> 00:18:55,233
you know like

559
00:18:55,233 –> 00:18:56,533
and so especially in beer

560
00:18:56,533 –> 00:18:58,133
you can really choose different I mean

561
00:18:58,133 –> 00:18:59,066
I guess in anything

562
00:18:59,066 –> 00:19:00,100
different yeast to be like

563
00:19:00,100 –> 00:19:01,433
I wanna bring out

564
00:19:01,466 –> 00:19:03,100
you know that kind of more passion fruit

565
00:19:03,100 –> 00:19:04,700
tropical flavor component

566
00:19:04,700 –> 00:19:06,700
this yeast will help me do that

567
00:19:06,700 –> 00:19:07,800
and so it really

568
00:19:07,800 –> 00:19:08,500
it’s a science

569
00:19:08,500 –> 00:19:09,266
and it is a science

570
00:19:09,266 –> 00:19:10,700
and the craziest thing is that

571
00:19:10,700 –> 00:19:13,166
our knowledge of this science is

572
00:19:13,400 –> 00:19:15,500
frankly kind of rudimentary

573
00:19:15,533 –> 00:19:19,433
like the fact that you might pitch with E40 yeast

574
00:19:19,500 –> 00:19:21,433
in evaluating the resulting

575
00:19:21,433 –> 00:19:23,366
product at the end of fermentation

576
00:19:23,400 –> 00:19:26,666
what type of east actually completed

577
00:19:26,666 –> 00:19:27,733
most of it some of it

578
00:19:27,733 –> 00:19:31,800
all of it might not be E40 like that

579
00:19:32,033 –> 00:19:32,700
that’s plausible

580
00:19:32,700 –> 00:19:33,633
that might start it

581
00:19:33,633 –> 00:19:35,200
but then there’s yeah

582
00:19:35,200 –> 00:19:37,000
in the air that could take over

583
00:19:37,000 –> 00:19:39,366
if there are more robust strain

584
00:19:39,400 –> 00:19:41,833
or if the conditions are appropriate

585
00:19:41,933 –> 00:19:43,600
yeah yeah yeah

586
00:19:44,533 –> 00:19:46,433
okay so we choose our yeast

587
00:19:46,533 –> 00:19:49,566
whether it’s native so um

588
00:19:50,533 –> 00:19:52,266
typically with a native yeast

589
00:19:52,266 –> 00:19:53,700
it’s done when it’s done

590
00:19:54,100 –> 00:19:55,933
four weeks to 12 weeks

591
00:19:55,933 –> 00:19:57,433
with a pitched yeast

592
00:19:57,433 –> 00:19:59,200
which is what we were just talking about

593
00:19:59,200 –> 00:20:00,233
it’s about two weeks

594
00:20:00,233 –> 00:20:02,533
five days to two weeks okay

595
00:20:02,533 –> 00:20:04,900
um and that’s when it’s too dry we

596
00:20:04,900 –> 00:20:07,533
we ferment most of our ciders to dry

597
00:20:07,533 –> 00:20:09,933
with obviously the exception of

598
00:20:09,933 –> 00:20:11,600
the ice ciders um

599
00:20:11,633 –> 00:20:13,233
and when they are not fermented to dry

600
00:20:13,233 –> 00:20:14,133
they’re typically

601
00:20:14,500 –> 00:20:16,000
cold crashed

602
00:20:16,533 –> 00:20:18,866
before all of the yeast has died

603
00:20:18,866 –> 00:20:20,900
so we kill the yeast um

604
00:20:20,900 –> 00:20:22,700
by dropping the temperature

605
00:20:22,700 –> 00:20:24,633
so the yeast can’t survive that way

606
00:20:26,033 –> 00:20:27,700
um one of the things that you mentioned

607
00:20:27,700 –> 00:20:29,166
earlier with respect to

608
00:20:29,400 –> 00:20:30,733
you know native use fermentation

609
00:20:30,733 –> 00:20:33,700
that I think is maybe helpful in illuminating to some

610
00:20:34,100 –> 00:20:36,866
with respect to the aromatics that you were describing

611
00:20:36,866 –> 00:20:39,366
that that allows um

612
00:20:39,533 –> 00:20:42,166
my understanding with respect to this is that

613
00:20:42,300 –> 00:20:45,533
when you have a commercial strain of yeast

614
00:20:45,533 –> 00:20:47,666
like E40 or any others

615
00:20:47,666 –> 00:20:50,733
but there are some that are intentionally designed for

616
00:20:50,733 –> 00:20:52,333
like for chance

617
00:20:52,333 –> 00:20:54,666
a champagne site or a champagne yeast

618
00:20:54,666 –> 00:20:56,133
that is intentionally designed

619
00:20:56,133 –> 00:21:00,433
it is cultivated to ferment hop and fast

620
00:21:01,133 –> 00:21:04,833
and the speed at which you ferment generally

621
00:21:05,066 –> 00:21:08,333
is based on the heat and the temperature

622
00:21:08,333 –> 00:21:09,266
which you ferment

623
00:21:09,266 –> 00:21:12,333
because one of the byproducts of fermentation is heat

624
00:21:12,333 –> 00:21:15,000
and then it compounds that so

625
00:21:15,000 –> 00:21:18,100
the fermentation goes faster and faster and faster

626
00:21:18,466 –> 00:21:21,400
and what that does is it kind of cooks out

627
00:21:21,466 –> 00:21:23,066
some of those more delicate

628
00:21:23,066 –> 00:21:26,800
nuanced aromas

629
00:21:26,800 –> 00:21:27,833
so cooking like

630
00:21:27,833 –> 00:21:30,200
fermenting slow and cold

631
00:21:30,300 –> 00:21:32,400
keeps and retains a lot of those

632
00:21:34,400 –> 00:21:37,033
we have another question um from Susan

633
00:21:37,133 –> 00:21:40,233
the difference between cider and Calvados hmm

634
00:21:40,233 –> 00:21:45,700
that’s a good question um do you wanna go sure go

635
00:21:47,066 –> 00:21:51,200
uh cider is to Calvados as wine is to brandy

636
00:21:52,100 –> 00:21:53,600
collaborate

637
00:21:53,600 –> 00:21:56,400
it’s the distal it that is made from

638
00:21:56,633 –> 00:21:57,833
uh you know

639
00:21:57,833 –> 00:22:04,133
you ferment apples into cider and then you distill it

640
00:22:04,500 –> 00:22:06,200
and then specifically

641
00:22:06,233 –> 00:22:07,233
then it’s apple brandy

642
00:22:07,233 –> 00:22:11,333
but if it’s made in the Calvatos region of France

643
00:22:11,500 –> 00:22:14,000
then it can be called calvatos uh

644
00:22:14,000 –> 00:22:18,000
same way you can ferment grapes into wine

645
00:22:18,133 –> 00:22:21,700
and then distill it and make brandy

646
00:22:21,700 –> 00:22:22,633
regular brandy

647
00:22:22,633 –> 00:22:26,133
or if you do it in like cognac or armeniac

648
00:22:26,333 –> 00:22:27,800
you can then call it armeniac

649
00:22:28,133 –> 00:22:32,200
I guess it’s also the way beer is to whiskey right

650
00:22:32,200 –> 00:22:33,666
you take grains and you can make them

651
00:22:33,666 –> 00:22:35,866
and then you distill beer and make that whiskey

652
00:22:35,866 –> 00:22:37,800
yep so yeah

653
00:22:38,066 –> 00:22:39,000
great question

654
00:22:39,633 –> 00:22:42,333
what makes apples not good for cider

655
00:22:43,000 –> 00:22:44,300
interesting question

656
00:22:44,333 –> 00:22:45,966
I might throw up this

657
00:22:46,100 –> 00:22:47,933
I might I have a visual here Riley

658
00:22:47,933 –> 00:22:49,133
you guys can start answering this

659
00:22:49,133 –> 00:22:51,900
but I have a visual that we’ve created a while ago of

660
00:22:52,633 –> 00:22:55,766
the the four quadrants of like different um

661
00:22:56,200 –> 00:22:57,933
one of the ways that you’ve tried to understand

662
00:22:57,933 –> 00:23:00,133
being able to talk about cider in a way that

663
00:23:00,233 –> 00:23:02,900
can be codified and understood

664
00:23:03,400 –> 00:23:06,866
no I don’t know about all that but yeah

665
00:23:06,866 –> 00:23:08,000
but so what

666
00:23:08,000 –> 00:23:08,833
let’s talk about the apple

667
00:23:08,833 –> 00:23:09,433
well actually let’s

668
00:23:09,433 –> 00:23:10,933
let’s jump into our second site first

669
00:23:10,933 –> 00:23:13,800
because I want to make sure we keep tasting along here

670
00:23:13,800 –> 00:23:15,700
here let’s pour these together in one glass

671
00:23:16,200 –> 00:23:17,700
so we can keep sipping on that

672
00:23:17,833 –> 00:23:21,833
um so I uh I love this question

673
00:23:21,833 –> 00:23:22,800
it’s excellent

674
00:23:22,866 –> 00:23:28,133
um I would say any apple is qualified for cider

675
00:23:28,933 –> 00:23:31,500
um a lot of eating apples

676
00:23:31,500 –> 00:23:36,133
a lot of grocery store apples are mostly uh

677
00:23:36,133 –> 00:23:38,000
bread for water content

678
00:23:38,000 –> 00:23:40,333
the the modern palette really just wants a snap

679
00:23:40,333 –> 00:23:42,833
when you bite into the apple um

680
00:23:43,400 –> 00:23:48,400
and the so it’s selected for what we like to eat

681
00:23:48,400 –> 00:23:51,300
so that’s sort of what we commonly think of as an apple

682
00:23:52,000 –> 00:23:56,433
there are so many apple varieties

683
00:23:56,433 –> 00:23:58,200
apples are more chromosomally

684
00:23:58,200 –> 00:24:01,400
diverse than human beings crazy

685
00:24:01,433 –> 00:24:04,300
and if thousand on the planet or something like that

686
00:24:04,500 –> 00:24:08,833
yes at least if an apple falls from a tree

687
00:24:08,866 –> 00:24:11,833
and that apple goes to seed

688
00:24:12,000 –> 00:24:13,266
the tree that grows in

689
00:24:13,266 –> 00:24:16,133
the fruit that’s produced will not be identical

690
00:24:16,333 –> 00:24:19,100
it’ll be a descendant of that apple

691
00:24:19,266 –> 00:24:21,100
so that’s just sort of an aside

692
00:24:21,100 –> 00:24:22,700
that’s just sort of a fun fact

693
00:24:22,733 –> 00:24:25,300
um but what makes apples really good for cider

694
00:24:25,300 –> 00:24:27,933
is what makes grapes really good for wine

695
00:24:28,200 –> 00:24:29,933
acid and tanning

696
00:24:29,933 –> 00:24:31,533
so sugar and tanning

697
00:24:31,700 –> 00:24:33,533
um you want really ripe

698
00:24:33,533 –> 00:24:34,766
beautiful fruits

699
00:24:35,100 –> 00:24:37,333
um so good quality fruit

700
00:24:37,333 –> 00:24:39,200
is you know

701
00:24:39,666 –> 00:24:42,366
raw material makes for a really great

702
00:24:42,500 –> 00:24:43,900
cider at the back end

703
00:24:44,533 –> 00:24:47,266
but concentration of those flavors is really important

704
00:24:47,266 –> 00:24:48,800
so a lot of the apples

705
00:24:48,800 –> 00:24:49,900
and this is a great visual

706
00:24:49,900 –> 00:24:51,500
thank you so much

707
00:24:53,233 –> 00:24:55,600
uh like the bitter sharps and the bitter sweets

708
00:24:55,600 –> 00:24:59,533
they typically don’t taste very good to eat they

709
00:24:59,533 –> 00:25:02,033
it could be like biting into a cotton ball um

710
00:25:02,033 –> 00:25:03,833
that those flavors and those tannins

711
00:25:03,833 –> 00:25:07,133
or acid is so concentrated um

712
00:25:07,200 –> 00:25:10,966
that it really needs the

713
00:25:11,333 –> 00:25:14,600
the the length and the scientific aspect

714
00:25:14,600 –> 00:25:17,266
the chemistry of fermentation to bring out

715
00:25:17,266 –> 00:25:19,133
what it’s destiny is for

716
00:25:19,133 –> 00:25:20,500
so there’s a history

717
00:25:20,500 –> 00:25:21,133
um you know

718
00:25:21,133 –> 00:25:24,933
in colonial earth apple history

719
00:25:25,533 –> 00:25:28,566
uh that is um

720
00:25:29,033 –> 00:25:30,733
sort of um like

721
00:25:30,733 –> 00:25:32,400
like everyone was saying

722
00:25:32,400 –> 00:25:35,000
descendant from English and French cider apples

723
00:25:35,300 –> 00:25:40,133
those are definitely more bread for fermentation

724
00:25:40,133 –> 00:25:44,300
so they will be really nuance when you ferment them

725
00:25:44,600 –> 00:25:47,533
and they store pretty well

726
00:25:47,533 –> 00:25:48,533
so that’s another

727
00:25:48,533 –> 00:25:51,600
aspect is that if they have good structure

728
00:25:51,600 –> 00:25:52,833
they tend to ferment well

729
00:25:52,833 –> 00:25:54,600
and they can ripen really well

730
00:25:55,200 –> 00:25:57,433
and so the opposite of that is a lot of water

731
00:25:57,433 –> 00:26:01,033
so structure of membrane versus structure

732
00:26:01,033 –> 00:26:03,133
that sort of holds a lot of water

733
00:26:04,633 –> 00:26:05,333
that’s gonna

734
00:26:05,333 –> 00:26:08,300
that’s gonna be a sort of lighter

735
00:26:08,300 –> 00:26:09,933
less flavorful fermentation

736
00:26:09,933 –> 00:26:11,233
if that makes sense

737
00:26:12,233 –> 00:26:13,666
yeah absolutely

738
00:26:13,666 –> 00:26:15,600
and something that’s kind of fun

739
00:26:15,600 –> 00:26:16,900
for all of you to imagine

740
00:26:16,900 –> 00:26:20,600
if you’ve ever eaten a crab apple off of a tree

741
00:26:20,833 –> 00:26:22,033
something that isn’t cultivated

742
00:26:22,033 –> 00:26:23,700
you probably haven’t done it twice

743
00:26:24,800 –> 00:26:27,433
cultivated for eating um

744
00:26:27,433 –> 00:26:29,600
when those apples are ripe

745
00:26:29,600 –> 00:26:31,933
they have the same sugar content

746
00:26:32,200 –> 00:26:34,833
as a gala apple or a Fiji apple

747
00:26:35,266 –> 00:26:36,100
the thing is

748
00:26:36,100 –> 00:26:39,733
is that those crab apples just have a lot of acid

749
00:26:39,733 –> 00:26:42,700
and a lot of tannins that kind of

750
00:26:42,700 –> 00:26:45,733
mask the sweetness that might otherwise be there

751
00:26:46,200 –> 00:26:47,466
so fun thing to keep in mind

752
00:26:47,466 –> 00:26:48,966
next time you have a crab apple

753
00:26:49,700 –> 00:26:52,133
yeah and it really you know

754
00:26:53,066 –> 00:26:56,733
I feel like most apples that make great cider

755
00:26:56,733 –> 00:26:58,733
are not apples you want to eat

756
00:26:59,100 –> 00:26:59,700
you know yeah

757
00:26:59,700 –> 00:27:01,300
like that’s kind of the way it goes

758
00:27:01,300 –> 00:27:03,633
and so you when you’re thinking of apples

759
00:27:03,633 –> 00:27:05,000
and you’re thinking of

760
00:27:05,000 –> 00:27:07,433
you know the apples you have in the grocery store

761
00:27:07,700 –> 00:27:09,466
that is not primarily what

762
00:27:09,466 –> 00:27:10,866
and that’s part of you know

763
00:27:10,866 –> 00:27:12,100
I know this is hoply debated

764
00:27:12,100 –> 00:27:13,600
but that’s partly what

765
00:27:13,833 –> 00:27:15,800
you know kind of stifled

766
00:27:15,900 –> 00:27:18,466
the cider industry in our country for a very long time

767
00:27:18,466 –> 00:27:19,300
with prohibition

768
00:27:19,300 –> 00:27:19,866
right I mean

769
00:27:19,866 –> 00:27:22,233
I know this is a little hoply debated that like

770
00:27:22,233 –> 00:27:23,400
is this really the reason

771
00:27:23,400 –> 00:27:25,333
but what I’ve heard and you

772
00:27:25,333 –> 00:27:26,633
we can all debate this a little bit

773
00:27:26,633 –> 00:27:27,966
is you know

774
00:27:28,066 –> 00:27:30,566
because the apples that are good for making cider

775
00:27:30,600 –> 00:27:32,066
really aren’t good for a lot else

776
00:27:32,066 –> 00:27:33,533
like even if you bake them

777
00:27:33,533 –> 00:27:34,433
even if you like

778
00:27:34,433 –> 00:27:34,900
you can’t like

779
00:27:34,900 –> 00:27:36,466
you can’t make them into a good pie

780
00:27:36,466 –> 00:27:37,433
you can’t make that

781
00:27:37,433 –> 00:27:39,433
so when prohibition hit and like

782
00:27:39,433 –> 00:27:40,000
you had all

783
00:27:40,000 –> 00:27:42,000
these apple trees that they were making cider with

784
00:27:42,000 –> 00:27:44,733
because we’ve been making cider in this country forever

785
00:27:44,733 –> 00:27:46,266
like it was one of the earliest

786
00:27:46,266 –> 00:27:47,100
you know oh yeah

787
00:27:47,100 –> 00:27:49,133
it’s what the founding fathers were drinking

788
00:27:49,133 –> 00:27:50,233
absolutely and

789
00:27:50,233 –> 00:27:52,933
and it was partially because it was safer than water

790
00:27:52,933 –> 00:27:56,466
you know it might have only been one or two 3% alcohol

791
00:27:56,466 –> 00:27:58,833
but it was still cider um

792
00:27:58,833 –> 00:28:00,266
and so when prohibition hit

793
00:28:00,266 –> 00:28:01,600
and like you have all these apple trees

794
00:28:01,600 –> 00:28:03,266
and you can’t make any money off of them anymore

795
00:28:03,266 –> 00:28:05,533
cause you can’t make cider anymore

796
00:28:05,633 –> 00:28:07,166
a lot of those heirloom

797
00:28:07,200 –> 00:28:09,600
varieties and varieties that are great for cider

798
00:28:09,600 –> 00:28:10,566
but nothing else

799
00:28:10,800 –> 00:28:12,700
kind of went fallow you know

800
00:28:12,700 –> 00:28:14,033
no one was taking care of them anymore

801
00:28:14,033 –> 00:28:16,400
they got ripped up to replant other things right

802
00:28:16,400 –> 00:28:18,800
they needed to use their farm for something productive

803
00:28:18,933 –> 00:28:22,133
and so then when prohibition ended you know

804
00:28:22,133 –> 00:28:24,400
cider kind of just didn’t come back for a while

805
00:28:24,400 –> 00:28:26,066
and when it did start to

806
00:28:26,066 –> 00:28:27,333
a lot of the apple

807
00:28:27,333 –> 00:28:29,600
trees that were still around in our country

808
00:28:29,700 –> 00:28:31,400
or not necessarily the cider

809
00:28:31,400 –> 00:28:32,866
the apples that you wanna make cider with

810
00:28:32,866 –> 00:28:34,933
and so some of that early cider

811
00:28:35,300 –> 00:28:37,066
was very sweet and you know

812
00:28:37,066 –> 00:28:39,133
made for the American palette in a different way

813
00:28:39,133 –> 00:28:40,866
and now there

814
00:28:40,866 –> 00:28:42,033
there’s a lot of cider makers

815
00:28:42,033 –> 00:28:44,933
were really investing a lot of time and energy into

816
00:28:45,066 –> 00:28:46,666
replanting these heirloom varieties

817
00:28:46,666 –> 00:28:48,266
finding these heirloom varieties

818
00:28:48,266 –> 00:28:49,800
and bringing that culture back

819
00:28:49,800 –> 00:28:50,266
which is why

820
00:28:50,266 –> 00:28:52,833
we’re getting such great cider now yeah

821
00:28:52,833 –> 00:28:53,333
Tom thank you

822
00:28:53,333 –> 00:28:54,700
Suzanne for naming it the name

823
00:28:54,700 –> 00:28:55,666
the sort of

824
00:28:55,666 –> 00:28:57,100
name that we use for cider

825
00:28:57,100 –> 00:28:58,866
specific apples is heirloom apples

826
00:28:58,866 –> 00:29:00,533
that’s pretty industry standard

827
00:29:01,233 –> 00:29:02,600
yeah Tom uh

828
00:29:03,000 –> 00:29:05,366
no not no uh

829
00:29:05,400 –> 00:29:08,300
the the apples that might be good in your pie are

830
00:29:08,300 –> 00:29:10,800
probably gonna make a better cider than Red

831
00:29:10,800 –> 00:29:12,166
Delicious yeah

832
00:29:12,733 –> 00:29:14,666
there’s an apple that grows um

833
00:29:14,666 –> 00:29:17,100
it’s native to New York State

834
00:29:17,100 –> 00:29:19,500
that’s called Northern Spy um

835
00:29:19,500 –> 00:29:23,600
and it is arguably the best apple for pies

836
00:29:23,600 –> 00:29:24,633
the the saying is

837
00:29:24,633 –> 00:29:26,100
spies for pies uh

838
00:29:26,100 –> 00:29:28,433
it also makes an incredible

839
00:29:28,433 –> 00:29:31,033
single variety cider um

840
00:29:31,033 –> 00:29:33,466
I think also something to note about what makes apples

841
00:29:33,466 –> 00:29:36,366
good for cider is that um

842
00:29:36,633 –> 00:29:38,566
because they’re so diverse

843
00:29:38,833 –> 00:29:39,666
it’s common

844
00:29:39,666 –> 00:29:42,700
that will blend different varieties of apples to really

845
00:29:42,700 –> 00:29:47,100
get the palette that we’re trying to achieve um

846
00:29:47,100 –> 00:29:48,933
I like to say apples like their friends

847
00:29:48,933 –> 00:29:51,600
there’s very few apple varieties that have

848
00:29:51,600 –> 00:29:53,533
the right balance of acid tannin and

849
00:29:53,533 –> 00:29:55,533
and sweetness to ferment

850
00:29:55,533 –> 00:29:57,933
nicely in a palatable way um

851
00:29:57,933 –> 00:30:01,266
but if you are deliberate about how these flavors

852
00:30:01,266 –> 00:30:03,100
differ and compliment each other

853
00:30:03,466 –> 00:30:05,033
and usually it’s

854
00:30:05,033 –> 00:30:06,266
it’s kind of uh

855
00:30:06,266 –> 00:30:07,633
1 to 1 if they

856
00:30:07,633 –> 00:30:09,100
if the flavors in the mouth feel

857
00:30:09,100 –> 00:30:09,833
kind of compliment

858
00:30:09,833 –> 00:30:11,300
each other when they’re raw

859
00:30:11,533 –> 00:30:13,333
they’ll continue to do that when they ferment

860
00:30:13,333 –> 00:30:15,533
as well yeah yeah

861
00:30:15,533 –> 00:30:16,400
that’s an interesting thing

862
00:30:16,400 –> 00:30:17,533
I think about cider

863
00:30:17,700 –> 00:30:21,300
and a kind of a contrast to what you see in wine

864
00:30:21,733 –> 00:30:23,200
there’s numerous

865
00:30:23,200 –> 00:30:24,600
and arguably

866
00:30:24,600 –> 00:30:26,000
like most wine in

867
00:30:26,000 –> 00:30:27,366
that you find in the world

868
00:30:27,433 –> 00:30:29,700
is varietal

869
00:30:29,700 –> 00:30:30,900
like that is

870
00:30:30,900 –> 00:30:32,500
what the expression is

871
00:30:32,500 –> 00:30:33,066
is an expression

872
00:30:33,066 –> 00:30:34,633
of that single

873
00:30:34,633 –> 00:30:35,900
type of grape you know

874
00:30:35,900 –> 00:30:36,800
maybe there’s

875
00:30:36,833 –> 00:30:39,500
2 or 3% of this or that um

876
00:30:39,500 –> 00:30:42,200
but comparatively it’s

877
00:30:42,866 –> 00:30:44,000
highly uncommon

878
00:30:44,000 –> 00:30:45,933
with the exception of maybe

879
00:30:45,933 –> 00:30:48,566
a handful of apple varietals

880
00:30:48,600 –> 00:30:49,300
that you see

881
00:30:49,300 –> 00:30:50,633
varietal cider

882
00:30:52,133 –> 00:30:53,833
Northern Spy being one of them

883
00:30:53,833 –> 00:30:55,200
I feel like I’ve seen a dab in it

884
00:30:55,200 –> 00:30:55,800
Kingston Black

885
00:30:55,800 –> 00:30:56,933
Kingston Black yeah

886
00:30:56,933 –> 00:30:57,600
it’s lovely

887
00:30:57,600 –> 00:30:58,000
golden dress

888
00:30:58,000 –> 00:30:59,133
it is lovely

889
00:30:59,133 –> 00:31:00,266
yeah yeah yeah

890
00:31:00,266 –> 00:31:01,133
overall there’s

891
00:31:01,133 –> 00:31:03,033
would you say like a half a dozen

892
00:31:03,033 –> 00:31:05,700
grab and Steen is a big one in Sonoma and Jonathan

893
00:31:05,700 –> 00:31:07,800
yeah hey Riley

894
00:31:07,800 –> 00:31:09,033
can you tell us about this Troc Star

895
00:31:09,033 –> 00:31:11,100
cause I gotta tell you like putting my nose in it

896
00:31:11,100 –> 00:31:13,933
I love to I was immediately and you know

897
00:31:13,933 –> 00:31:15,700
I know what’s going on here

898
00:31:15,700 –> 00:31:16,466
but still I was like

899
00:31:16,466 –> 00:31:20,100
oh this smells like an aged Riesling like this is

900
00:31:20,466 –> 00:31:22,733
it really has that beautiful smell to it

901
00:31:22,733 –> 00:31:24,333
and the color is just gorgeous

902
00:31:24,333 –> 00:31:26,066
and it’s very different than our first one

903
00:31:26,066 –> 00:31:28,000
so tell us a little bit about what’s going on here

904
00:31:28,033 –> 00:31:30,666
yeah so the Troc Star is uh

905
00:31:30,666 –> 00:31:36,000
cider that is fermented on pressed Riesling grape skins

906
00:31:36,533 –> 00:31:40,066
so um Eden Ciders just this past year

907
00:31:40,066 –> 00:31:43,933
2023 merged with a Vermont winery um

908
00:31:43,933 –> 00:31:45,233
called Shelbourne Vineyards

909
00:31:45,733 –> 00:31:47,900
they are a very

910
00:31:48,200 –> 00:31:52,433
you know pioneer in cold climate wine making um

911
00:31:52,633 –> 00:31:56,133
and as we sort of addressed right at the outset

912
00:31:56,200 –> 00:31:57,433
cider and wine are

913
00:31:57,433 –> 00:31:59,766
they just go hand in hand with the process

914
00:32:00,133 –> 00:32:02,700
and we find that regionally

915
00:32:03,466 –> 00:32:04,000
cold climate

916
00:32:04,000 –> 00:32:06,600
wines and ciders really play nicely together

917
00:32:06,733 –> 00:32:11,566
but this specific cider was sort of just a fun whim

918
00:32:11,900 –> 00:32:15,800
uh why not so we have this cold uh

919
00:32:15,800 –> 00:32:16,933
cold climate Riesling

920
00:32:16,933 –> 00:32:18,200
it’s the only uh

921
00:32:18,200 –> 00:32:20,100
Riesling planting in Vermont

922
00:32:20,500 –> 00:32:23,800
uh our friends took the grapes pressed it

923
00:32:23,800 –> 00:32:26,333
made a beautiful Riesling wine

924
00:32:26,466 –> 00:32:29,866
and then they gave us their skins

925
00:32:29,866 –> 00:32:31,833
it was pretty much their their

926
00:32:31,933 –> 00:32:33,333
they would have thrown it away

927
00:32:33,333 –> 00:32:34,800
they would have posted it

928
00:32:35,400 –> 00:32:40,100
so we took those skins and we threw them very

929
00:32:40,266 –> 00:32:41,700
it’s not like very glamorous

930
00:32:41,700 –> 00:32:44,166
we dumped them in a tank of fermenting cider

931
00:32:44,600 –> 00:32:47,500
um it was it was just starting to ferment

932
00:32:47,500 –> 00:32:49,433
so it wasn’t anywhere near dry

933
00:32:49,733 –> 00:32:53,433
so those skins got to play along in the fermentation

934
00:32:53,533 –> 00:32:55,200
and sort of inform

935
00:32:55,400 –> 00:32:58,600
um some of those Riesling yeasts were in there

936
00:32:58,633 –> 00:33:01,000
uh it added a little bit more structure to

937
00:33:01,000 –> 00:33:04,033
the fermentation because of the tanning in those skins

938
00:33:04,533 –> 00:33:07,833
um and we we did cold crash this one

939
00:33:07,833 –> 00:33:09,933
so this has a little bit of residual sweetness

940
00:33:10,100 –> 00:33:12,433
and that is from uh

941
00:33:12,633 –> 00:33:13,866
arrested fermentation

942
00:33:13,866 –> 00:33:17,500
so we stopped the fermentation at about oh

943
00:33:17,500 –> 00:33:21,033
I think it’s about 10 grams per liter of residual sugar

944
00:33:21,533 –> 00:33:26,533
um and uh the name is truck star uh

945
00:33:26,933 –> 00:33:29,500
because Riesling is

946
00:33:29,500 –> 00:33:32,433
is categorized as trocan through cabinet

947
00:33:32,433 –> 00:33:34,366
so trocan is on the dry side

948
00:33:34,500 –> 00:33:35,033
the cabinet

949
00:33:35,033 –> 00:33:36,000
which is sweet

950
00:33:36,733 –> 00:33:40,266
and we kind of wanted this to be a fun

951
00:33:40,266 –> 00:33:44,100
like kind of whimsical cider so

952
00:33:44,700 –> 00:33:46,100
we took a little bit of the tradition

953
00:33:46,100 –> 00:33:51,200
and a little bit of just like playful name so lovely

954
00:33:51,200 –> 00:33:51,700
it’s really

955
00:33:51,700 –> 00:33:54,466
I love the color and the aroma and it’s really

956
00:33:54,466 –> 00:33:55,466
I like that a lot

957
00:33:55,466 –> 00:33:57,833
so the number that you

958
00:33:58,033 –> 00:34:00,800
just mentioned with regard to the sweetness of this

959
00:34:00,900 –> 00:34:02,733
I feel like it helps

960
00:34:04,000 –> 00:34:06,800
people orient to orient themselves

961
00:34:06,900 –> 00:34:09,733
a gram is roughly one packet

962
00:34:09,733 –> 00:34:14,200
of sugar that you might have on the table at your cafe

963
00:34:14,633 –> 00:34:20,033
so if you can imagine 10 of those packets in a liter um

964
00:34:20,600 –> 00:34:21,900
human perception

965
00:34:22,266 –> 00:34:25,533
is roughly around 3 or 4 grams per liter

966
00:34:25,533 –> 00:34:28,233
less than that or right around that

967
00:34:28,833 –> 00:34:30,033
you’re probably not gonna

968
00:34:30,033 –> 00:34:33,033
recognize that there’s any residual sugar um

969
00:34:33,100 –> 00:34:33,933
under 3 or 4

970
00:34:33,933 –> 00:34:35,200
under 3 or 4

971
00:34:35,200 –> 00:34:36,466
depending on the leader okay

972
00:34:36,466 –> 00:34:37,733
yeah depending on yeah

973
00:34:37,733 –> 00:34:39,500
um and then

974
00:34:40,266 –> 00:34:42,966
if you have a can of Coca Cola

975
00:34:43,333 –> 00:34:45,600
in your refrigerator right now

976
00:34:45,833 –> 00:34:49,500
I think that’s 40 grams in a 12 ounce can

977
00:34:49,500 –> 00:34:54,633
which roughly translates to about 90 grams per liter

978
00:34:54,866 –> 00:34:57,700
so this is slightly sweet

979
00:34:57,700 –> 00:35:00,566
and keep in mind that of course there’s a bunch of

980
00:35:00,700 –> 00:35:02,033
acidity in the Coca Cola

981
00:35:02,033 –> 00:35:03,100
because if you missed it before

982
00:35:03,100 –> 00:35:04,633
this is 10 grams per liter

983
00:35:04,633 –> 00:35:06,400
is where this kind of next out at the end

984
00:35:06,400 –> 00:35:08,066
so it might sound like there’s a lot of sugar in there

985
00:35:08,066 –> 00:35:11,133
but it’s very large yeah

986
00:35:11,200 –> 00:35:14,466
and it’s important to note that it’s not white sugar

987
00:35:14,466 –> 00:35:16,633
it’s it’s naturally occurring apple sugars

988
00:35:16,733 –> 00:35:17,933
all right yeah

989
00:35:17,933 –> 00:35:19,900
all right although you know

990
00:35:19,900 –> 00:35:23,333
some producers do use cane sugar to ferment um

991
00:35:23,333 –> 00:35:24,033
we don’t have to

992
00:35:24,033 –> 00:35:25,933
because when you press the apple

993
00:35:25,933 –> 00:35:27,633
super fresh at harvest like we do

994
00:35:27,633 –> 00:35:30,033
they have lots of fermentable sugar still in them

995
00:35:30,033 –> 00:35:31,700
so we we don’t need to add

996
00:35:33,033 –> 00:35:34,466
Jay I love this question

997
00:35:34,466 –> 00:35:36,033
where is the future of ciders going

998
00:35:36,033 –> 00:35:36,833
and should it

999
00:35:36,833 –> 00:35:39,400
there is we miss his previous question too

1000
00:35:39,600 –> 00:35:41,266
oh yeah Johnny Appleseed oh yeah

1001
00:35:41,266 –> 00:35:43,533
planting trees in hopes that it would turn into booze

1002
00:35:43,533 –> 00:35:44,466
was Johnny Appleseed

1003
00:35:44,466 –> 00:35:47,100
I don’t know the whole story about Johnny Appleseed

1004
00:35:47,100 –> 00:35:49,500
in hopes that it will turn into booze

1005
00:35:49,666 –> 00:35:52,000
you know my recollection and Riley

1006
00:35:52,000 –> 00:35:53,400
if you wanna chime in

1007
00:35:53,400 –> 00:35:56,533
I my understanding is that that was an actual person

1008
00:35:56,533 –> 00:35:57,533
yeah I think so

1009
00:35:57,533 –> 00:35:58,866
I think his name was Carpenter

1010
00:35:58,866 –> 00:36:00,500
I think so or something like that

1011
00:36:00,500 –> 00:36:02,933
I think it’s over the sea um

1012
00:36:03,600 –> 00:36:06,233
but I don’t feel like I really have any recollection of

1013
00:36:06,233 –> 00:36:08,800
his mission or reason

1014
00:36:09,133 –> 00:36:12,333
of why he was planting trees in it if in fact

1015
00:36:12,333 –> 00:36:15,133
he did go around planting a lot of apple seeds

1016
00:36:15,133 –> 00:36:15,833
I I feel like

1017
00:36:15,833 –> 00:36:17,433
I think that is a true story

1018
00:36:17,433 –> 00:36:19,000
and I think it was something related

1019
00:36:19,000 –> 00:36:20,166
though to like

1020
00:36:20,233 –> 00:36:21,400
trying to like

1021
00:36:21,400 –> 00:36:24,433
attract other people to build towns in those areas

1022
00:36:24,433 –> 00:36:27,033
because apples were such a big part of the culture

1023
00:36:27,033 –> 00:36:30,466
then and you could make safer water sources out of it

1024
00:36:30,466 –> 00:36:32,633
and you could eat them and so his

1025
00:36:33,133 –> 00:36:35,933
and so his thought was as I’m roaming and traveling

1026
00:36:35,933 –> 00:36:38,033
if there’s apple Orchards that come up

1027
00:36:38,033 –> 00:36:39,866
as new people come by

1028
00:36:39,866 –> 00:36:41,533
they will be more likely to settle here

1029
00:36:41,533 –> 00:36:43,400
because it’s already kind of gotten started

1030
00:36:43,700 –> 00:36:46,533
um is what I believe part of the story was but

1031
00:36:46,700 –> 00:36:49,200
someone can fact check that and probably tell us where

1032
00:36:49,233 –> 00:36:50,066
we’re way off

1033
00:36:50,066 –> 00:36:52,900
and have no idea what we’re talking about here um

1034
00:36:53,400 –> 00:36:55,466
the future of ciders is a very interesting question

1035
00:36:55,466 –> 00:36:57,333
cause I do feel like there is a lot of stuff

1036
00:36:57,333 –> 00:36:58,633
that’s hoply debated

1037
00:36:58,633 –> 00:37:00,833
um I’ll throw one thing out there

1038
00:37:00,833 –> 00:37:02,600
just to get us kicked off here

1039
00:37:02,600 –> 00:37:06,333
I think I’ve heard a lot of talk over the years about

1040
00:37:07,033 –> 00:37:08,900
how cider is moving

1041
00:37:09,400 –> 00:37:12,433
too quickly on the heels of craft beer

1042
00:37:12,433 –> 00:37:14,566
so kind of looking at the craft beer

1043
00:37:14,800 –> 00:37:15,966
industry and market

1044
00:37:16,300 –> 00:37:18,833
and seeing how the crafter industry has gotten like

1045
00:37:18,833 –> 00:37:22,733
crazy with the fruited and the sours and the barrel

1046
00:37:22,733 –> 00:37:25,533
aging and like all of these really creative

1047
00:37:25,533 –> 00:37:26,833
the Milkshake IPA right

1048
00:37:26,833 –> 00:37:28,300
all these really creative

1049
00:37:28,800 –> 00:37:30,100
crazy expressions

1050
00:37:30,300 –> 00:37:33,400
and that cider kind of started getting really popular

1051
00:37:33,400 –> 00:37:34,900
as that was going on

1052
00:37:34,900 –> 00:37:37,500
and like moved into that kind of stuff

1053
00:37:37,633 –> 00:37:39,000
a little too quickly

1054
00:37:39,000 –> 00:37:40,200
just because they were kind of like

1055
00:37:40,200 –> 00:37:41,900
well craft beer is doing it and people love it

1056
00:37:41,900 –> 00:37:42,900
in craft beer

1057
00:37:43,133 –> 00:37:45,233
where in the criticism is that

1058
00:37:45,233 –> 00:37:48,500
like the craft beer had decades

1059
00:37:48,500 –> 00:37:51,133
almost of this is what a logger is

1060
00:37:51,133 –> 00:37:52,600
and this is what a pillsner is

1061
00:37:52,600 –> 00:37:54,333
and this is what an IPA is

1062
00:37:54,333 –> 00:37:55,933
without all the bells and whistles

1063
00:37:55,933 –> 00:37:57,600
kind of confusing everyone

1064
00:37:57,933 –> 00:38:00,066
and that maybe we’re moving a little too fast into

1065
00:38:00,066 –> 00:38:02,700
fruited ciders and barrel age ciders all that

1066
00:38:02,700 –> 00:38:05,700
because people don’t even know what a dry cider or a

1067
00:38:05,900 –> 00:38:08,100
Spanish style cider is yet

1068
00:38:08,100 –> 00:38:09,400
we need baby steps

1069
00:38:09,500 –> 00:38:11,500
and so that’s my

1070
00:38:11,800 –> 00:38:13,966
thing to throw out into this conversation

1071
00:38:14,066 –> 00:38:14,800
um but I would

1072
00:38:14,800 –> 00:38:16,066
you know so I’d love to hear your

1073
00:38:16,066 –> 00:38:17,233
both of your thoughts on that

1074
00:38:17,233 –> 00:38:18,833
but also just future of cider

1075
00:38:18,833 –> 00:38:19,333
where is it going

1076
00:38:19,333 –> 00:38:20,200
and what do we think

1077
00:38:20,900 –> 00:38:22,233
yeah um yeah

1078
00:38:22,233 –> 00:38:23,433
that’s a great question

1079
00:38:23,433 –> 00:38:25,900
and I feel uh

1080
00:38:25,900 –> 00:38:27,133
right now today

1081
00:38:27,133 –> 00:38:29,433
feel pretty uniquely qualified to answer that

1082
00:38:29,433 –> 00:38:32,333
I am coming to you live from CiderCon

1083
00:38:32,333 –> 00:38:35,400
haha 2024 that’s happening right now

1084
00:38:35,433 –> 00:38:38,800
which is the largest cider symposium nationally

1085
00:38:38,800 –> 00:38:40,233
I think maybe globally

1086
00:38:40,233 –> 00:38:41,133
it’s so fun

1087
00:38:41,500 –> 00:38:43,633
it’s super fun um

1088
00:38:44,666 –> 00:38:45,266
actually Steven I

1089
00:38:45,266 –> 00:38:47,233
I realized cidercon was going on right now

1090
00:38:47,233 –> 00:38:49,100
but I did not connect the two that you were there

1091
00:38:49,100 –> 00:38:51,333
and so thank you for taking time away from all the

1092
00:38:51,333 –> 00:38:52,533
festivities to do this with us

1093
00:38:52,533 –> 00:38:53,400
that’s incredible

1094
00:38:53,400 –> 00:38:56,333
I knew that I was gonna be really wanting to share with

1095
00:38:56,333 –> 00:38:57,900
like you know

1096
00:38:57,900 –> 00:38:59,000
I get excited

1097
00:38:59,033 –> 00:39:00,000
actually um

1098
00:39:00,433 –> 00:39:03,066
but uh I would say

1099
00:39:03,066 –> 00:39:05,733
you both made really excellent points

1100
00:39:05,733 –> 00:39:06,733
um and I would

1101
00:39:06,733 –> 00:39:07,900
say I agree with you

1102
00:39:07,900 –> 00:39:09,300
on a personal level

1103
00:39:09,533 –> 00:39:13,800
um I think that it is difficult to

1104
00:39:13,900 –> 00:39:16,200
have an industry standard of what

1105
00:39:16,233 –> 00:39:17,100
quote unquote

1106
00:39:17,100 –> 00:39:19,300
real cider is

1107
00:39:20,600 –> 00:39:21,466
to have like a

1108
00:39:21,466 –> 00:39:23,466
like just a basic understanding

1109
00:39:23,466 –> 00:39:25,366
like we do with beer and wine

1110
00:39:26,266 –> 00:39:27,500
someone made a point to me today

1111
00:39:27,500 –> 00:39:29,000
that I thought was fascinating

1112
00:39:29,333 –> 00:39:33,000
that a lot of people will try one cider

1113
00:39:33,000 –> 00:39:35,666
and it will be very sweet or very tart

1114
00:39:35,666 –> 00:39:39,633
it’s not what they want and they don’t like cider yeah

1115
00:39:39,733 –> 00:39:42,100
that doesn’t really happen with beer or wine

1116
00:39:42,133 –> 00:39:43,733
you don’t try one beer

1117
00:39:44,266 –> 00:39:45,100
and you don’t like it

1118
00:39:45,100 –> 00:39:47,400
so you never try any other styles of beer

1119
00:39:47,633 –> 00:39:48,733
or you don’t like

1120
00:39:48,733 –> 00:39:49,800
um chardonnay

1121
00:39:49,800 –> 00:39:52,166
so you’re never gonna drink a cabernet sauvignon

1122
00:39:52,200 –> 00:39:53,700
like that doesn’t happen

1123
00:39:54,000 –> 00:39:56,233
um so why is it happening with cider

1124
00:39:56,433 –> 00:39:59,433
maybe it’s because it was too flooded

1125
00:39:59,433 –> 00:40:01,300
and everyone has their own definition

1126
00:40:01,900 –> 00:40:04,900
um is that is that terrible

1127
00:40:05,066 –> 00:40:09,400
no is it a barrier to progress

1128
00:40:09,400 –> 00:40:11,066
probably yes yeah

1129
00:40:11,066 –> 00:40:12,466
yeah it’s a big

1130
00:40:12,466 –> 00:40:14,933
it’s a big consumer education challenge yeah

1131
00:40:14,933 –> 00:40:16,300
really helping people

1132
00:40:16,300 –> 00:40:19,233
and hopefully all of you feel like this is helping you

1133
00:40:19,333 –> 00:40:20,233
with that challenge

1134
00:40:20,233 –> 00:40:22,800
like helping you taste through and understand

1135
00:40:22,800 –> 00:40:23,866
step by step a little bit

1136
00:40:23,866 –> 00:40:25,533
some of the varieties and the differences

1137
00:40:25,533 –> 00:40:27,200
and what’s going on in this industry yeah

1138
00:40:27,200 –> 00:40:28,733
going back to the very beginning of this

1139
00:40:28,733 –> 00:40:29,700
of this evening

1140
00:40:29,733 –> 00:40:31,400
um the idea that

1141
00:40:31,733 –> 00:40:36,233
if cider is wine and yeah

1142
00:40:36,433 –> 00:40:38,400
just because you don’t like chardonnay

1143
00:40:38,400 –> 00:40:40,033
doesn’t mean you don’t like wine

1144
00:40:40,033 –> 00:40:42,833
yeah and just because you don’t like this cider

1145
00:40:42,833 –> 00:40:44,200
doesn’t mean you don’t like cider

1146
00:40:44,200 –> 00:40:47,000
it’s easily as broad and diverse

1147
00:40:47,000 –> 00:40:51,266
and arguably more so because of the general

1148
00:40:51,266 –> 00:40:52,500
like you know

1149
00:40:53,000 –> 00:40:54,733
whether it be good or bad

1150
00:40:54,833 –> 00:40:56,300
the decision to

1151
00:40:56,300 –> 00:40:57,266
as an industry

1152
00:40:57,266 –> 00:40:58,433
with the cider world

1153
00:40:58,533 –> 00:41:01,100
hop cider and add additional fruit to the cider

1154
00:41:01,100 –> 00:41:03,933
usually wine is made from grapes yeah

1155
00:41:04,000 –> 00:41:06,333
and it’s either aged or not aged

1156
00:41:06,333 –> 00:41:08,766
but you don’t see a lot of

1157
00:41:09,233 –> 00:41:10,600
wine that’s hop

1158
00:41:10,600 –> 00:41:13,966
like I’ve never actually seen a wine that’s hop and so

1159
00:41:16,000 –> 00:41:17,300
just because you don’t like this one

1160
00:41:17,300 –> 00:41:18,433
doesn’t mean you don’t like it

1161
00:41:18,433 –> 00:41:20,700
just means you gotta keep drinking and keep trying more

1162
00:41:20,700 –> 00:41:22,400
guys I hate to break it to you

1163
00:41:22,633 –> 00:41:23,800
persist yeah

1164
00:41:23,800 –> 00:41:24,733
persist persist

1165
00:41:24,733 –> 00:41:25,300
drink through it

1166
00:41:25,300 –> 00:41:26,200
drink through it

1167
00:41:26,200 –> 00:41:27,700
yeah you’ll

1168
00:41:27,700 –> 00:41:28,700
you’ll find the site

1169
00:41:28,700 –> 00:41:30,933
the cider or the wine or whatever that you love

1170
00:41:30,933 –> 00:41:32,866
um yeah let’s move on to the brute Rose

1171
00:41:32,866 –> 00:41:35,600
and then great question from Bob and Kristen here

1172
00:41:35,600 –> 00:41:37,000
so um back in my youth

1173
00:41:37,000 –> 00:41:38,800
the Buddy Rehab Decider press

1174
00:41:38,833 –> 00:41:40,400
we gathered a pile of apples

1175
00:41:40,400 –> 00:41:42,366
and cranked them through the press

1176
00:41:42,466 –> 00:41:44,133
the product was delicious

1177
00:41:44,200 –> 00:41:45,833
then it got nice and tangy

1178
00:41:46,000 –> 00:41:48,700
but all too quickly turned sour

1179
00:41:49,033 –> 00:41:51,000
how could we have turned it into cider

1180
00:41:52,733 –> 00:41:54,800
you very well may have

1181
00:41:55,433 –> 00:41:57,200
I think you probably did

1182
00:41:57,533 –> 00:42:01,733
um I think that sometimes uh well

1183
00:42:01,733 –> 00:42:04,900
it sounds like the issue there was volatile acidity

1184
00:42:05,666 –> 00:42:07,833
so that is um

1185
00:42:08,033 –> 00:42:10,600
something that happens when again

1186
00:42:10,600 –> 00:42:11,666
the yeast is stressed

1187
00:42:11,666 –> 00:42:14,366
when it’s not ideal fermentation conditions

1188
00:42:15,033 –> 00:42:18,033
um also it sort of depends on the environment

1189
00:42:18,033 –> 00:42:18,933
it’s fermented in

1190
00:42:18,933 –> 00:42:20,666
if it’s not very sterile

1191
00:42:20,666 –> 00:42:23,900
I always say that cider making is 90% cleaning

1192
00:42:24,066 –> 00:42:26,433
wine making is 90% cleaning

1193
00:42:26,866 –> 00:42:28,900
um kind of obsessively

1194
00:42:29,533 –> 00:42:32,433
there’s a lot that can fall out of balance and a lot of

1195
00:42:32,433 –> 00:42:34,100
a lot of kind of um

1196
00:42:34,100 –> 00:42:37,433
we just kind of use the term flaw broadly

1197
00:42:37,600 –> 00:42:38,833
flaws can come out

1198
00:42:39,733 –> 00:42:41,700
yeah and you know very well

1199
00:42:41,700 –> 00:42:43,466
like also that could have

1200
00:42:43,466 –> 00:42:45,200
that could have been a

1201
00:42:46,266 –> 00:42:47,500
you know fresh

1202
00:42:47,800 –> 00:42:49,133
non alcoholic cider

1203
00:42:49,133 –> 00:42:51,566
and then it could have become hard cider

1204
00:42:51,600 –> 00:42:54,433
and then just a little bit of an incetive actor

1205
00:42:54,433 –> 00:42:57,533
and it could have turned the alcohol into vinegar

1206
00:42:58,833 –> 00:43:00,766
that could have happened very easily as well

1207
00:43:02,200 –> 00:43:03,000
yeah

1208
00:43:04,233 –> 00:43:07,833
tell us about this brute rose Brute

1209
00:43:07,833 –> 00:43:11,533
Rose is a um

1210
00:43:12,333 –> 00:43:15,000
cider infused with red current

1211
00:43:15,466 –> 00:43:22,833
so this particular product was made for my boss because

1212
00:43:22,833 –> 00:43:25,700
where we live in the Northeast Kingdom of Vermont

1213
00:43:25,700 –> 00:43:28,233
we’re on the Canadian border it

1214
00:43:29,266 –> 00:43:30,700
we have like

1215
00:43:30,900 –> 00:43:35,200
probably like 6 to 8 months of just like gray sadness

1216
00:43:35,533 –> 00:43:38,000
and in um in the

1217
00:43:38,000 –> 00:43:40,066
in the spring we have um

1218
00:43:40,066 –> 00:43:42,966
between winter and spring we have mud season

1219
00:43:43,066 –> 00:43:45,100
so uh the roads wash out

1220
00:43:45,100 –> 00:43:46,100
you can’t get anywhere

1221
00:43:46,100 –> 00:43:47,866
it’s ugly uh

1222
00:43:47,866 –> 00:43:48,733
and Eleanor

1223
00:43:48,733 –> 00:43:49,600
our boss said

1224
00:43:49,600 –> 00:43:53,533
I want to feel like I’m in the south of France wow

1225
00:43:53,533 –> 00:43:56,400
I want to drink something that will make me feel like

1226
00:43:56,400 –> 00:43:58,600
I’m sitting on the French Riviera

1227
00:43:58,733 –> 00:44:01,233
and this is sort of what came about um

1228
00:44:01,233 –> 00:44:02,933
very Provence all rose

1229
00:44:03,933 –> 00:44:05,900
it’s kind of a unique thing for us

1230
00:44:05,900 –> 00:44:08,433
typically we let the apple sort of do their thing

1231
00:44:08,433 –> 00:44:09,500
and the cider is

1232
00:44:09,500 –> 00:44:11,033
is what it’s gonna be

1233
00:44:11,033 –> 00:44:15,866
this is one where we kind of wanted to make a beverage

1234
00:44:15,866 –> 00:44:18,733
we want it to be this

1235
00:44:18,733 –> 00:44:21,800
so we um sourced currents from

1236
00:44:21,800 –> 00:44:23,433
our currents actually come from Germany

1237
00:44:24,000 –> 00:44:26,300
and that’s where red currents grow in abundance

1238
00:44:26,300 –> 00:44:28,566
and they’re able to export

1239
00:44:28,733 –> 00:44:30,766
really hard to source them domestically

1240
00:44:32,133 –> 00:44:34,866
but so basically we ferment the cider

1241
00:44:34,866 –> 00:44:38,833
we add a little bit of ice cider back in um

1242
00:44:38,833 –> 00:44:40,866
so we blend that and a little bit of red current

1243
00:44:40,866 –> 00:44:43,533
which has lots of earthy tannin and spice

1244
00:44:43,533 –> 00:44:45,800
sort of that like great cranberry

1245
00:44:46,233 –> 00:44:49,733
baking spice note almost um

1246
00:44:49,733 –> 00:44:50,866
and it’s just like

1247
00:44:50,866 –> 00:44:53,533
supremely fruity and crushable and wonderful

1248
00:44:53,900 –> 00:44:55,666
it really ended nose on this

1249
00:44:55,666 –> 00:44:57,700
I just want to hang out with my nose in the glass

1250
00:44:57,700 –> 00:44:59,933
strawberry jam oh yeah

1251
00:45:01,033 –> 00:45:02,633
what does a current taste like

1252
00:45:02,633 –> 00:45:04,600
it’s been a long time since I’ve had a

1253
00:45:04,600 –> 00:45:06,400
is it kind of like a dried cranberry

1254
00:45:06,400 –> 00:45:07,833
is it real intense cranberry

1255
00:45:07,833 –> 00:45:09,266
so it’s like a smaller cranberry

1256
00:45:09,266 –> 00:45:12,100
the Berry itself is probably about a you know

1257
00:45:12,100 –> 00:45:14,466
half third to half a size of a cranberry

1258
00:45:14,466 –> 00:45:18,300
so it’s just more ratio of skin to flesh

1259
00:45:18,300 –> 00:45:22,533
so it’s like more more mouth drying more tart

1260
00:45:22,700 –> 00:45:25,466
but they’re also sweeter than cranberries right

1261
00:45:25,466 –> 00:45:26,533
little bit much

1262
00:45:26,533 –> 00:45:27,600
yeah little bit

1263
00:45:28,633 –> 00:45:30,033
I feel like they don’t

1264
00:45:30,033 –> 00:45:32,200
like they’re not really cultivated

1265
00:45:32,466 –> 00:45:35,433
and they don’t grow indigenous to the United States

1266
00:45:35,433 –> 00:45:37,133
like black currents are invasive

1267
00:45:37,133 –> 00:45:38,600
so they’re prohibited from growing

1268
00:45:38,600 –> 00:45:41,566
so I think folks just think current is bad

1269
00:45:41,600 –> 00:45:43,433
red currents are not invasive

1270
00:45:43,433 –> 00:45:44,633
but interesting

1271
00:45:44,666 –> 00:45:45,266
interesting

1272
00:45:45,266 –> 00:45:46,900
I realize that they were invasive

1273
00:45:46,900 –> 00:45:49,833
you know why don’t we talk about the tree beard as well

1274
00:45:49,833 –> 00:45:52,133
because I feel like we have a chatty audience tonight

1275
00:45:52,133 –> 00:45:54,633
and so we might all get some questions and we get to

1276
00:45:54,633 –> 00:45:55,666
well jump in here and

1277
00:45:55,666 –> 00:45:56,733
and open this up

1278
00:45:56,733 –> 00:45:58,400
which we’re done getting through these

1279
00:45:58,400 –> 00:45:58,900
these delicious

1280
00:45:58,900 –> 00:46:00,733
deliciousness awesome

1281
00:46:01,066 –> 00:46:04,500
um so Tree Beard is going to be

1282
00:46:04,900 –> 00:46:06,333
uh do you want me to jump in

1283
00:46:06,333 –> 00:46:07,466
go for it yes please

1284
00:46:07,466 –> 00:46:09,100
Tree Beard is going to be another

1285
00:46:09,100 –> 00:46:11,100
um totally bone dry cider

1286
00:46:11,100 –> 00:46:13,800
just like the deep cut that you had first

1287
00:46:14,033 –> 00:46:17,833
um so it’s going to be a little bit more wine

1288
00:46:17,833 –> 00:46:20,833
like in its base and a little less fruit forward

1289
00:46:21,433 –> 00:46:24,900
and then we put fresh hops in this

1290
00:46:24,900 –> 00:46:29,000
so fresh hops is a term that’s like

1291
00:46:29,000 –> 00:46:32,700
not really the official term in beer

1292
00:46:32,700 –> 00:46:34,800
you either dry hop or wet hop

1293
00:46:35,033 –> 00:46:36,233
so it’s seasonal

1294
00:46:36,233 –> 00:46:38,033
a wet hop is when hops are in season

1295
00:46:38,033 –> 00:46:40,200
and you throw the whole sort of

1296
00:46:40,200 –> 00:46:41,733
um you know

1297
00:46:41,733 –> 00:46:43,866
bud of the hop in the beer to

1298
00:46:43,866 –> 00:46:45,533
to steep uh

1299
00:46:45,533 –> 00:46:47,300
and then pretty much for the rest

1300
00:46:47,300 –> 00:46:48,300
of the year

1301
00:46:48,333 –> 00:46:49,466
not in fall

1302
00:46:49,466 –> 00:46:51,000
you would dry a hop

1303
00:46:51,100 –> 00:46:52,833
put it into a pellet and throw that

1304
00:46:52,833 –> 00:46:53,933
and then that’s dry hopping

1305
00:46:53,933 –> 00:46:55,933
or dry the hops themselves whatever

1306
00:46:56,100 –> 00:46:57,900
so we fresh hop

1307
00:46:57,900 –> 00:47:00,933
which is closest to wet hopping

1308
00:47:01,433 –> 00:47:07,600
um but we kind of coined this term fresh hopped because

1309
00:47:07,733 –> 00:47:09,466
we drive to the hop farm

1310
00:47:09,466 –> 00:47:11,633
the day these bad boys are picked

1311
00:47:11,833 –> 00:47:12,900
uh huh pick them up

1312
00:47:12,900 –> 00:47:14,700
we drive back to the cidery

1313
00:47:14,700 –> 00:47:16,300
it’s like six hours round trip

1314
00:47:16,300 –> 00:47:18,300
but it’s really important that they go in

1315
00:47:18,300 –> 00:47:19,633
the day that they’re picked

1316
00:47:20,200 –> 00:47:22,266
um and we steep it really

1317
00:47:22,266 –> 00:47:23,433
really gently

1318
00:47:23,600 –> 00:47:25,633
so we want a delicate extraction

1319
00:47:25,633 –> 00:47:27,233
um the way I like to put it is

1320
00:47:27,233 –> 00:47:30,400
we’re going for verdant not resin

1321
00:47:30,600 –> 00:47:34,433
so we want something really bright and green and um

1322
00:47:34,433 –> 00:47:37,433
herbal and we don’t want something that’s like

1323
00:47:37,433 –> 00:47:38,633
we don’t want the bitterness

1324
00:47:38,633 –> 00:47:41,066
we don’t want to over extract and get to like

1325
00:47:41,066 –> 00:47:42,300
IPA territory

1326
00:47:42,666 –> 00:47:45,400
um this one to me

1327
00:47:45,533 –> 00:47:46,500
close your eyes

1328
00:47:46,500 –> 00:47:48,400
and it’s like a sauvignon blanc

1329
00:47:48,400 –> 00:47:51,500
it’s it is such a fun cider

1330
00:47:51,733 –> 00:47:54,633
um I don’t love hop cider in general

1331
00:47:54,633 –> 00:47:58,233
I was a little reluctant to making this but uh

1332
00:47:58,233 –> 00:48:00,033
we found a really great hop partner

1333
00:48:00,033 –> 00:48:01,333
they’re organically grown

1334
00:48:01,333 –> 00:48:02,000
they’re beautiful

1335
00:48:02,000 –> 00:48:02,900
the hop varieties

1336
00:48:02,900 –> 00:48:04,100
if anyone’s a beer nerd

1337
00:48:04,100 –> 00:48:05,033
are Cascade

1338
00:48:05,033 –> 00:48:06,233
Willammette and

1339
00:48:06,233 –> 00:48:07,233
um Centennial

1340
00:48:08,000 –> 00:48:09,266
so all Vermont grown

1341
00:48:09,266 –> 00:48:11,700
um we steep them for about two weeks

1342
00:48:11,700 –> 00:48:14,200
and then it’s pressed off uh very

1343
00:48:14,200 –> 00:48:14,933
very gently

1344
00:48:14,933 –> 00:48:17,966
so we don’t wanna overextract the

1345
00:48:18,033 –> 00:48:19,033
the rhizomes

1346
00:48:19,133 –> 00:48:21,833
um we use a tincture press

1347
00:48:21,833 –> 00:48:23,600
which is a tincy tincy

1348
00:48:23,600 –> 00:48:26,900
it’s about the size of a 5 gallon bucket press

1349
00:48:27,400 –> 00:48:28,666
um it’s laborious

1350
00:48:28,666 –> 00:48:30,000
it takes forever

1351
00:48:30,000 –> 00:48:32,266
but that’s the only way we can get that delicate

1352
00:48:32,266 –> 00:48:33,033
extraction so

1353
00:48:33,033 –> 00:48:34,233
that’s how we do that

1354
00:48:35,066 –> 00:48:36,533
it’s really lovely I

1355
00:48:36,600 –> 00:48:37,066
you know the

1356
00:48:37,066 –> 00:48:39,100
I feel like the first hopsider I ever had

1357
00:48:39,100 –> 00:48:40,333
I totally fell in love with

1358
00:48:40,333 –> 00:48:41,500
it was just a beautifully named

1359
00:48:41,500 –> 00:48:42,433
I’m forgetting

1360
00:48:42,633 –> 00:48:44,433
who it was right at the moment

1361
00:48:44,600 –> 00:48:46,066
and then so I thought like

1362
00:48:46,066 –> 00:48:47,233
oh I love hopsiders

1363
00:48:47,233 –> 00:48:50,300
I really started trying a bunch of them and man

1364
00:48:50,300 –> 00:48:52,733
there are a lot of bad hopsiders out there

1365
00:48:52,866 –> 00:48:54,000
like a lot that

1366
00:48:54,000 –> 00:48:54,900
honestly to me

1367
00:48:54,900 –> 00:48:56,533
just end up tasting like an armpit

1368
00:48:56,533 –> 00:48:57,300
kind of like

1369
00:48:57,300 –> 00:48:58,333
they just go like

1370
00:48:58,333 –> 00:48:59,500
over the top with

1371
00:48:59,500 –> 00:49:01,100
like the yeah

1372
00:49:01,300 –> 00:49:02,666
like what are you trying to cover up with

1373
00:49:02,666 –> 00:49:03,633
this hop flavor yeah

1374
00:49:03,633 –> 00:49:05,033
well I think the apple

1375
00:49:05,033 –> 00:49:05,900
combined with that

1376
00:49:05,900 –> 00:49:06,800
like really

1377
00:49:06,800 –> 00:49:07,933
like hoppy hoppy

1378
00:49:07,933 –> 00:49:10,233
like can just get a little weird sometimes

1379
00:49:10,233 –> 00:49:11,066
yeah when you’ve got the

1380
00:49:11,066 –> 00:49:12,200
like the roasted malt

1381
00:49:12,200 –> 00:49:13,900
sweetness density in a beer

1382
00:49:13,900 –> 00:49:16,300
you can have a lot more hop character

1383
00:49:16,300 –> 00:49:17,900
yeah but the delicacy of

1384
00:49:17,900 –> 00:49:19,500
a lot of ciders don’t

1385
00:49:19,500 –> 00:49:20,300
necessarily

1386
00:49:20,300 –> 00:49:21,133
stand up to it

1387
00:49:21,133 –> 00:49:22,866
unless you do delicates

1388
00:49:22,866 –> 00:49:24,866
and this is beautiful

1389
00:49:24,866 –> 00:49:25,833
and when you said

1390
00:49:25,833 –> 00:49:26,533
probably on Blanc

1391
00:49:26,533 –> 00:49:27,933
I can definitely see that

1392
00:49:27,933 –> 00:49:28,833
like I don’t know what I would

1393
00:49:28,833 –> 00:49:30,233
got there myself but it is

1394
00:49:30,233 –> 00:49:31,333
it has that like

1395
00:49:31,333 –> 00:49:32,900
Fresh Vibrancy

1396
00:49:32,900 –> 00:49:34,100
a New Zealand self blog

1397
00:49:34,100 –> 00:49:37,233
we’re not talking sure yeah

1398
00:49:38,300 –> 00:49:39,266
it’s really

1399
00:49:39,266 –> 00:49:40,800
tomato leaf just

1400
00:49:42,200 –> 00:49:45,300
yeah all of these Riley are I mean it you know

1401
00:49:45,300 –> 00:49:47,066
I knew I knew I loved the insiders

1402
00:49:47,066 –> 00:49:49,300
but it’s always so fun to taste through them

1403
00:49:49,300 –> 00:49:51,233
like focused like this and really

1404
00:49:51,300 –> 00:49:53,633
really go through them thanks

1405
00:49:54,733 –> 00:49:57,066
let’s move on to the peace divisist on yeah

1406
00:49:57,066 –> 00:49:59,500
time for the big show cool

1407
00:50:01,633 –> 00:50:02,900
so so ice ciders

1408
00:50:02,900 –> 00:50:04,100
tell him I haven’t opened this yet

1409
00:50:04,100 –> 00:50:04,900
you’re in for a treat

1410
00:50:04,900 –> 00:50:07,400
yeah yeah yes you are uh

1411
00:50:07,400 –> 00:50:12,900
so Ice cider is uh where Eden Ciders got its start yeah

1412
00:50:13,400 –> 00:50:17,600
um back in 0 7 it was uh

1413
00:50:18,666 –> 00:50:22,533
born out of a weekend trip to Montreal

1414
00:50:22,600 –> 00:50:26,233
um so ice cider is um

1415
00:50:26,833 –> 00:50:30,833
native or was was developed in Quebec

1416
00:50:31,300 –> 00:50:35,000
uh so in the tradition of the German ice vine

1417
00:50:35,000 –> 00:50:36,300
where grapes freeze on the

1418
00:50:36,300 –> 00:50:38,800
on the vine and then they’re pressed um

1419
00:50:38,800 –> 00:50:42,033
and the sugars are concentrated then uh

1420
00:50:42,033 –> 00:50:45,433
there was a really kooky guy in Quebec in the 7

1421
00:50:45,433 –> 00:50:47,133
the 1970s that started

1422
00:50:47,133 –> 00:50:50,566
playing with that same methodology at his home Orchard

1423
00:50:50,833 –> 00:50:52,366
uh in his own basement

1424
00:50:52,733 –> 00:50:55,800
and finally around the late 80s early 90s

1425
00:50:55,800 –> 00:50:59,466
he started really producing ice cider uh

1426
00:50:59,466 –> 00:51:02,133
and it was recognized by the SAQ

1427
00:51:02,133 –> 00:51:03,200
the Canadian

1428
00:51:03,200 –> 00:51:07,966
you know alcohol governance as its own product um

1429
00:51:08,333 –> 00:51:10,200
fast forward 15 years

1430
00:51:10,600 –> 00:51:11,500
Eleanor my boss

1431
00:51:11,500 –> 00:51:13,966
the founder of Eden travels to Montreal

1432
00:51:14,400 –> 00:51:17,633
for a weekend with her husband after they had um

1433
00:51:18,266 –> 00:51:20,266
left her career in Wall Street

1434
00:51:20,266 –> 00:51:22,700
she had a first career in Wall Street haha

1435
00:51:22,933 –> 00:51:27,166
um they bought an abandoned dairy farm um

1436
00:51:27,700 –> 00:51:29,700
and we’re just gonna move really

1437
00:51:29,700 –> 00:51:30,833
they went up to Montreal

1438
00:51:30,833 –> 00:51:33,233
they tried ice cider for the first time

1439
00:51:33,233 –> 00:51:36,033
and their worlds changed on a dime

1440
00:51:36,200 –> 00:51:36,800
they were like

1441
00:51:36,800 –> 00:51:37,866
what is this

1442
00:51:37,866 –> 00:51:39,533
we have to make this

1443
00:51:39,633 –> 00:51:43,433
it’s a little caraware based yeah um

1444
00:51:43,633 –> 00:51:46,266
and it is uh

1445
00:51:46,266 –> 00:51:47,233
it’s dessert wine

1446
00:51:47,233 –> 00:51:49,433
so basically ice cider

1447
00:51:49,433 –> 00:51:52,700
the ice portion comes in from freezing

1448
00:51:52,933 –> 00:51:54,566
prior to fermentation

1449
00:51:54,933 –> 00:51:58,200
so the process of making ice cider can be done

1450
00:51:58,733 –> 00:52:01,700
two ways and still be classified as an ice cider

1451
00:52:01,700 –> 00:52:05,400
so you can allow the apples to freeze on the trees

1452
00:52:05,400 –> 00:52:07,900
so after the first frost of the year

1453
00:52:07,900 –> 00:52:08,600
which you know

1454
00:52:08,600 –> 00:52:12,100
happens usually after harvest is well over

1455
00:52:13,633 –> 00:52:15,333
you can let those freeze on the trees

1456
00:52:15,333 –> 00:52:17,733
and press those frozen apples

1457
00:52:17,733 –> 00:52:18,800
they have a special name

1458
00:52:18,800 –> 00:52:20,133
they’re called griggles

1459
00:52:20,233 –> 00:52:21,566
when they freeze on the trees

1460
00:52:22,000 –> 00:52:23,900
griggles cute

1461
00:52:24,400 –> 00:52:27,133
and then you take that juice

1462
00:52:27,133 –> 00:52:28,900
that’s going to be very concentrated

1463
00:52:28,900 –> 00:52:30,133
because they were frozen

1464
00:52:30,133 –> 00:52:34,500
and sort of the water is sapped in that process um

1465
00:52:34,833 –> 00:52:38,200
and you’re gonna have a really concentrated raw cider

1466
00:52:38,400 –> 00:52:39,766
that when you ferment

1467
00:52:40,100 –> 00:52:42,300
you’ll be able to ferment to hire alcohol

1468
00:52:42,300 –> 00:52:44,433
cause you’ll have more sugar to start

1469
00:52:44,433 –> 00:52:46,466
and basically your

1470
00:52:46,466 –> 00:52:50,133
your guide to fermentation is yeast eats sugar and

1471
00:52:50,433 –> 00:52:51,600
expels alcohol

1472
00:52:51,600 –> 00:52:54,266
produces alcohol um

1473
00:52:54,266 –> 00:52:56,666
and so when you have all this extra sugar

1474
00:52:56,666 –> 00:52:58,300
you can ferment extra high

1475
00:52:58,300 –> 00:53:00,533
this is about 11% alcohol

1476
00:53:00,600 –> 00:53:02,033
and still maintain all of the

1477
00:53:02,033 –> 00:53:03,566
this residual sweetness

1478
00:53:04,000 –> 00:53:06,200
um so this the raw

1479
00:53:06,200 –> 00:53:10,866
material that you get is only about 10% of the volume

1480
00:53:10,866 –> 00:53:12,500
of the fresh press cider

1481
00:53:12,533 –> 00:53:14,133
as it happens wow

1482
00:53:14,133 –> 00:53:16,800
um so and the way that that’s extracted

1483
00:53:16,800 –> 00:53:18,733
is either through freezing on the trees

1484
00:53:19,600 –> 00:53:23,800
or what we do is we press our apples fresh

1485
00:53:24,033 –> 00:53:25,000
peak ripeness

1486
00:53:25,000 –> 00:53:28,233
when they have all the fermentable sugars available

1487
00:53:28,433 –> 00:53:29,800
and then we um

1488
00:53:30,100 –> 00:53:33,800
stick the liquid in totes outside uh big

1489
00:53:33,800 –> 00:53:34,633
I wish I had a picture

1490
00:53:34,633 –> 00:53:35,833
I should have thought about

1491
00:53:36,000 –> 00:53:38,133
uh a big um

1492
00:53:38,133 –> 00:53:41,000
stack of plastic totes of apple juice

1493
00:53:41,000 –> 00:53:42,233
and in the winter

1494
00:53:42,233 –> 00:53:45,700
they freeze solid and um

1495
00:53:46,600 –> 00:53:47,500
then in the spring

1496
00:53:47,500 –> 00:53:48,633
as things thaw

1497
00:53:48,800 –> 00:53:52,166
that frozen solution starts to thaw

1498
00:53:52,233 –> 00:53:53,966
based on density

1499
00:53:54,233 –> 00:53:56,633
so the apple solution

1500
00:53:56,733 –> 00:53:59,533
the sugars are more dense than water

1501
00:53:59,633 –> 00:54:02,300
so they will fall to the bottom of that vessel

1502
00:54:02,300 –> 00:54:05,300
and think like when you melt a popsicle

1503
00:54:05,300 –> 00:54:06,933
when you melt a freeze pop

1504
00:54:07,133 –> 00:54:08,266
you’ll get the

1505
00:54:08,266 –> 00:54:13,100
the sugary stuff melts first because it has a

1506
00:54:13,533 –> 00:54:15,800
higher melt point lower melt

1507
00:54:16,100 –> 00:54:16,800
higher melt point

1508
00:54:16,800 –> 00:54:18,000
I always get it backwards

1509
00:54:18,133 –> 00:54:19,866
uh so you’ll get the

1510
00:54:19,866 –> 00:54:20,300
the concentrate

1511
00:54:20,300 –> 00:54:23,500
will melt first and leave behind an ice cap

1512
00:54:23,633 –> 00:54:27,066
so we’re able just to capture that very

1513
00:54:27,066 –> 00:54:28,666
concentrated first melt

1514
00:54:28,666 –> 00:54:31,633
which is pretty much all liquid apple sugar

1515
00:54:32,000 –> 00:54:34,200
and that’s what we do to ferment um

1516
00:54:34,333 –> 00:54:35,400
the ice cider

1517
00:54:35,400 –> 00:54:37,100
so this particular cider

1518
00:54:37,466 –> 00:54:39,100
is about uh

1519
00:54:39,100 –> 00:54:42,533
18 different varieties of heirloom apples

1520
00:54:42,533 –> 00:54:44,866
all grown specific for cider production

1521
00:54:44,866 –> 00:54:46,533
so those ones that wouldn’t necessarily

1522
00:54:46,533 –> 00:54:48,033
taste great to eat

1523
00:54:48,133 –> 00:54:50,266
but they ferment really long

1524
00:54:50,266 –> 00:54:51,433
slow and cold

1525
00:54:51,433 –> 00:54:52,300
beautifully

1526
00:54:52,900 –> 00:54:54,400
um and yeah

1527
00:54:54,400 –> 00:54:55,800
you can see outside of our red barn

1528
00:54:55,800 –> 00:54:57,100
that’s that’s uh

1529
00:54:57,100 –> 00:55:01,066
the scene of the winter there um

1530
00:55:01,066 –> 00:55:02,600
but uh so yeah

1531
00:55:02,600 –> 00:55:04,100
that’s basically how it goes

1532
00:55:04,100 –> 00:55:07,000
the ice cider is fermented to about 10%

1533
00:55:07,000 –> 00:55:09,800
we stop the fermentation by

1534
00:55:09,800 –> 00:55:12,033
cold crashing again to kill the yeast

1535
00:55:12,466 –> 00:55:13,800
um and then

1536
00:55:13,833 –> 00:55:15,133
really importantly

1537
00:55:15,133 –> 00:55:18,933
we age the ice cider for at least 1 year

1538
00:55:18,933 –> 00:55:23,233
but closer to 3 years in tank prior to release um

1539
00:55:23,233 –> 00:55:26,766
because part of that intensity of sugar

1540
00:55:26,800 –> 00:55:27,933
in the concentrate

1541
00:55:27,933 –> 00:55:31,733
is that all the flavors are very intense um

1542
00:55:31,733 –> 00:55:33,466
and we really want it to sort of round out

1543
00:55:33,466 –> 00:55:37,300
and get silky and a tiny bit oxidized um

1544
00:55:37,300 –> 00:55:38,500
interact with

1545
00:55:38,500 –> 00:55:40,000
with oxygen a tiny bit

1546
00:55:40,033 –> 00:55:42,066
so that it gets this beautiful

1547
00:55:42,066 –> 00:55:44,933
silky almost um

1548
00:55:45,300 –> 00:55:48,100
like tropical fruit

1549
00:55:48,200 –> 00:55:49,200
pineapple pie

1550
00:55:49,200 –> 00:55:52,200
pineapple upside down cake thing um

1551
00:55:52,200 –> 00:55:53,233
so that’s what we’re going for

1552
00:55:53,233 –> 00:55:55,233
there are these

1553
00:55:55,233 –> 00:55:56,600
the tanks Riley

1554
00:55:56,600 –> 00:55:57,400
those are them

1555
00:55:57,400 –> 00:55:58,700
thank you for finding it

1556
00:55:58,700 –> 00:56:00,266
that is a spider

1557
00:56:00,266 –> 00:56:01,800
resting for the winter

1558
00:56:02,700 –> 00:56:04,100
cool so they just sit outside

1559
00:56:04,100 –> 00:56:06,866
getting chilly and cold all winter long in Vermont huh

1560
00:56:06,866 –> 00:56:08,433
and you sure do yep

1561
00:56:08,433 –> 00:56:11,200
it’s such a cool process yeah

1562
00:56:11,200 –> 00:56:14,033
just to clarify a little bit of the process itself

1563
00:56:15,400 –> 00:56:16,800
effectually

1564
00:56:17,333 –> 00:56:19,366
what you were describing is that the

1565
00:56:19,466 –> 00:56:20,766
the less dense

1566
00:56:21,033 –> 00:56:25,366
sugar and constituents of the cider that are not water

1567
00:56:25,666 –> 00:56:27,266
melt first yes

1568
00:56:27,266 –> 00:56:30,800
and then the water that is still frozen

1569
00:56:30,833 –> 00:56:34,300
you will remove the

1570
00:56:35,000 –> 00:56:37,000
and by doing so

1571
00:56:37,000 –> 00:56:39,100
concentrate it so you don’t let the water

1572
00:56:39,500 –> 00:56:43,166
continue to melt and mix with those constituent parts

1573
00:56:43,466 –> 00:56:46,166
you take the water out in its ice form

1574
00:56:47,833 –> 00:56:49,333
that’s pretty cool

1575
00:56:50,466 –> 00:56:53,100
so let’s um £8

1576
00:56:53,266 –> 00:56:57,566
£8 £8 off by one and so close

1577
00:56:57,900 –> 00:57:00,933
um so we’ll keep answering these questions

1578
00:57:00,933 –> 00:57:02,500
we’ll get to the UV effect

1579
00:57:02,500 –> 00:57:03,600
but I’m going to um

1580
00:57:03,600 –> 00:57:04,633
just so everyone knows

1581
00:57:04,633 –> 00:57:07,200
I’m gonna basically promote everyone to panelist

1582
00:57:07,400 –> 00:57:09,700
you can turn it down and still stay off camera

1583
00:57:09,700 –> 00:57:11,666
and keep listening in if you would like to

1584
00:57:11,666 –> 00:57:12,933
or you can accept it

1585
00:57:12,933 –> 00:57:15,500
and then that will allow you to turn your camera on

1586
00:57:15,633 –> 00:57:17,466
and unmute yourself

1587
00:57:17,466 –> 00:57:20,666
and just join in on the party a little bit um

1588
00:57:20,666 –> 00:57:21,833
and before I do that

1589
00:57:21,833 –> 00:57:24,400
I do wanna remind everyone if you um

1590
00:57:24,400 –> 00:57:25,700
in your SipScout kit

1591
00:57:25,700 –> 00:57:27,733
at the bottom of your SipScout report

1592
00:57:27,733 –> 00:57:28,666
our friends at press

1593
00:57:28,666 –> 00:57:32,633
then press did offer up a promo code to get 10% off for

1594
00:57:32,633 –> 00:57:35,600
anything you order on their site or free shipping

1595
00:57:35,600 –> 00:57:38,633
if you use the promo code CRAFTYCAST12 for

1596
00:57:38,866 –> 00:57:42,133
12 or more bottles or cans um

1597
00:57:42,133 –> 00:57:44,266
so being able to mix and add yeah

1598
00:57:44,266 –> 00:57:45,733
being able to mix and add and press them

1599
00:57:45,733 –> 00:57:47,333
press and press is a pretty cool

1600
00:57:47,333 –> 00:57:49,200
has a great craft cider selection

1601
00:57:49,200 –> 00:57:52,600
so not only can you stock up on some Eden cider

1602
00:57:52,700 –> 00:57:55,133
um and they have other varieties of Eden cider

1603
00:57:55,133 –> 00:57:56,100
and their ice cider too

1604
00:57:56,100 –> 00:57:57,133
because Eden you guys

1605
00:57:57,133 –> 00:57:59,500
you make a few different varieties of ice cider

1606
00:57:59,500 –> 00:58:01,166
uh huh we do

1607
00:58:01,200 –> 00:58:03,333
and I also need you to tell everyone about Orleans

1608
00:58:03,333 –> 00:58:05,833
because that is like one of my all time

1609
00:58:05,866 –> 00:58:06,833
mind blowing

1610
00:58:07,000 –> 00:58:08,033
favorite things

1611
00:58:08,300 –> 00:58:09,366
whole world

1612
00:58:10,266 –> 00:58:11,200
but so everyone

1613
00:58:11,200 –> 00:58:12,766
when you get your um

1614
00:58:12,833 –> 00:58:13,500
promote to panelist

1615
00:58:13,500 –> 00:58:16,033
either accept it and join us for the party or don’t

1616
00:58:16,033 –> 00:58:18,666
if any of you have to leave and you are

1617
00:58:18,666 –> 00:58:20,433
don’t wanna stay for a happy hour

1618
00:58:20,533 –> 00:58:23,033
cheers and thank you for joining us

1619
00:58:23,033 –> 00:58:25,666
but hopefully you will all stay and keep drinking

1620
00:58:25,666 –> 00:58:27,733
this delicious cider with us

1621
00:58:27,733 –> 00:58:30,600
um and I’ll put those promo codes in here as well

1622
00:58:30,600 –> 00:58:34,400
once we get rocking and rolling here so that um

1623
00:58:34,433 –> 00:58:35,900
if you didn’t get the kit

1624
00:58:35,900 –> 00:58:38,900
you can still get a nice discount on Eat Insiders

1625
00:58:39,433 –> 00:58:42,000
so Riley I know the uh

1626
00:58:42,233 –> 00:58:45,600
the Orleans has been around for a little while

1627
00:58:45,866 –> 00:58:49,333
um but what was the inspiration

1628
00:58:49,466 –> 00:58:50,300
yeah tell us about what

1629
00:58:50,300 –> 00:58:51,100
okay I’m sorry

1630
00:58:51,100 –> 00:58:52,533
I’m getting ahead of myself

1631
00:58:52,733 –> 00:58:57,800
um would you mind telling us what that is

1632
00:58:57,800 –> 00:59:01,500
and how on the planet you came up with these ideas

1633
00:59:01,500 –> 00:59:07,366
yeah um so our Orleans line is a line of cider

1634
00:59:07,633 –> 00:59:10,733
aperitifs so um

1635
00:59:11,600 –> 00:59:15,333
it happened um

1636
00:59:16,400 –> 00:59:18,300
as a lot of things happen

1637
00:59:18,300 –> 00:59:19,300
like we were talking about

1638
00:59:19,300 –> 00:59:21,833
just making wine in the first place um

1639
00:59:22,533 –> 00:59:23,600
by accident

1640
00:59:23,600 –> 00:59:27,533
so the orlene’s

1641
00:59:27,533 –> 00:59:30,300
uh base is uh

1642
00:59:30,300 –> 00:59:33,766
2nd freeze of ice cider

1643
00:59:34,033 –> 00:59:36,366
so basically um

1644
00:59:36,500 –> 00:59:38,433
it’s a byproduct of the ice cider process

1645
00:59:38,433 –> 00:59:42,933
in that we pulled off the concentrate of the ice cider

1646
00:59:42,933 –> 00:59:45,100
that we wanted to put into those bottles

1647
00:59:45,466 –> 00:59:47,133
then we let the solution

1648
00:59:47,600 –> 00:59:48,866
refreeze all together

1649
00:59:48,866 –> 00:59:50,466
we didn’t pull the ice cap out

1650
00:59:50,466 –> 00:59:51,833
that was the problem

1651
00:59:51,900 –> 00:59:54,166
so it all refroze together

1652
00:59:54,400 –> 00:59:56,233
and then it sort of

1653
00:59:56,300 –> 00:59:58,400
reconcentrated itself a tiny bit

1654
00:59:58,400 –> 01:00:00,633
it sort of does the process again but it’s a

1655
01:00:00,633 –> 01:00:04,266
it’s a not as concentrated melt the second time so that

1656
01:00:04,266 –> 01:00:06,900
that freezing process will clarify it every time

1657
01:00:07,000 –> 01:00:09,533
just a little bit lower yield each time

1658
01:00:10,000 –> 01:00:11,866
um and part of that

1659
01:00:11,866 –> 01:00:15,066
was that there was less sugar to start

1660
01:00:15,066 –> 01:00:18,366
so it was able to ferment all the way to dry

1661
01:00:18,633 –> 01:00:22,233
so it was able to ferment to about

1662
01:00:23,000 –> 01:00:25,233
16% alcohol

1663
01:00:25,533 –> 01:00:29,300
whereas if it had all of that intensity

1664
01:00:29,400 –> 01:00:30,600
it would have killed the alcohol

1665
01:00:30,600 –> 01:00:33,000
the yeast would have died from the alcohol

1666
01:00:33,466 –> 01:00:36,600
um so it just was this sort of what

1667
01:00:36,666 –> 01:00:38,133
what happened

1668
01:00:38,133 –> 01:00:39,033
what do we do

1669
01:00:39,033 –> 01:00:41,900
it tastes very savory

1670
01:00:42,100 –> 01:00:43,533
it’s very intense

1671
01:00:43,533 –> 01:00:47,333
it’s way too high in alcohol to really call it cider

1672
01:00:47,333 –> 01:00:51,000
haha um and so we uh

1673
01:00:51,000 –> 01:00:53,500
collaborated with another Vermont producer

1674
01:00:53,666 –> 01:00:55,533
um who is actually a very

1675
01:00:55,700 –> 01:00:57,833
well renowned wine uh

1676
01:00:57,833 –> 01:00:59,000
maker in Vermont

1677
01:00:59,000 –> 01:01:00,700
her name is Deirdre Hicken

1678
01:01:00,866 –> 01:01:03,733
she produces LA Garagista wines

1679
01:01:03,800 –> 01:01:05,500
um she’s you know

1680
01:01:05,500 –> 01:01:07,100
you may have seen her in New York Times

1681
01:01:07,100 –> 01:01:08,066
Wine Enthusiast

1682
01:01:08,066 –> 01:01:10,700
she’s she’s very prolific wine

1683
01:01:10,700 –> 01:01:11,766
wine producer

1684
01:01:12,033 –> 01:01:13,833
but her background is in

1685
01:01:14,000 –> 01:01:15,866
Italian wine and

1686
01:01:15,866 –> 01:01:17,166
vermouth and amaro

1687
01:01:17,466 –> 01:01:21,466
so she was able to source botanicals and aromatics

1688
01:01:21,466 –> 01:01:24,333
all locally to the Northeast Kingdom to Vermont

1689
01:01:24,833 –> 01:01:27,133
and she made these beautiful recipes

1690
01:01:27,433 –> 01:01:30,366
to use with our base cider

1691
01:01:30,700 –> 01:01:32,300
are based on your teeth

1692
01:01:32,300 –> 01:01:34,100
I misspoke sorry you guys

1693
01:01:34,100 –> 01:01:35,066
happy mistake

1694
01:01:35,066 –> 01:01:36,200
yeah and you’re

1695
01:01:36,200 –> 01:01:37,433
seriously yeah

1696
01:01:37,433 –> 01:01:39,133
this Orleans cider

1697
01:01:39,133 –> 01:01:41,033
Apertif is yeah

1698
01:01:41,033 –> 01:01:42,900
if you have any affinity towards

1699
01:01:42,900 –> 01:01:43,933
your mood yeah

1700
01:01:43,933 –> 01:01:45,433
it it drinks like a

1701
01:01:47,033 –> 01:01:48,000
it is so good

1702
01:01:48,000 –> 01:01:50,233
Madeira uh yeah

1703
01:01:50,233 –> 01:01:53,333
Sherry if you like anything like that

1704
01:01:53,500 –> 01:01:55,000
this is very

1705
01:01:55,000 –> 01:01:55,666
we have to get more

1706
01:01:55,666 –> 01:01:57,533
why do we not have some in our fridge at all times

1707
01:01:57,533 –> 01:01:59,833
it’s so yeah

1708
01:01:59,833 –> 01:02:01,466
we don’t we don’t have some in our fridge at all times

1709
01:02:01,466 –> 01:02:03,533
because we go through it too quickly yeah

1710
01:02:04,866 –> 01:02:06,533
so good welcome everyone

1711
01:02:06,533 –> 01:02:08,733
nice to see your faces and your knees and

1712
01:02:09,233 –> 01:02:10,066
all that good stuff

1713
01:02:10,066 –> 01:02:11,666
so feel free to meet yourselves

1714
01:02:11,666 –> 01:02:14,100
and just jump on into the conversation here

1715
01:02:14,433 –> 01:02:16,433
Jay I know you had a question about UV

1716
01:02:16,433 –> 01:02:18,400
does UV play a role in

1717
01:02:18,400 –> 01:02:20,966
when they’re at the juices sitting outside and

1718
01:02:21,933 –> 01:02:24,733
the degradation of the juice from UV

1719
01:02:24,733 –> 01:02:27,133
but it looks like those are pretty well shielded

1720
01:02:27,666 –> 01:02:30,000
they are um also

1721
01:02:30,000 –> 01:02:33,600
at the time that we are making and melting the cider

1722
01:02:33,733 –> 01:02:35,533
we’re not getting a ton of sunlight in a day

1723
01:02:35,533 –> 01:02:36,766
like four hours

1724
01:02:39,700 –> 01:02:40,900
so there’s that

1725
01:02:41,000 –> 01:02:45,933
but I will say that the difference in heat fluctuation

1726
01:02:45,933 –> 01:02:49,033
in the melting process is something very beneficial

1727
01:02:49,266 –> 01:02:52,600
uh sort of like a diurnal swing in wine night

1728
01:02:52,600 –> 01:02:55,300
nights are cold days are warm um

1729
01:02:55,300 –> 01:02:58,800
it makes for really beautiful texture in the beverage

1730
01:02:59,533 –> 01:03:04,600
so so those elements are actually in our favor is

1731
01:03:05,266 –> 01:03:07,366
is there something that like

1732
01:03:07,533 –> 01:03:11,366
if it were possible to get it to be frozen

1733
01:03:11,666 –> 01:03:13,800
solidly enough that you could

1734
01:03:13,800 –> 01:03:14,633
you know do the

1735
01:03:14,633 –> 01:03:17,733
that whole process in a climate or a region

1736
01:03:17,733 –> 01:03:22,066
where you would have even more significant of a swing

1737
01:03:22,066 –> 01:03:22,700
temperature swing

1738
01:03:22,700 –> 01:03:28,533
like if if it would go from like 0 to 70

1739
01:03:28,866 –> 01:03:30,300
and back and forth and back and forth

1740
01:03:30,300 –> 01:03:31,800
I know that’s dramatic

1741
01:03:31,800 –> 01:03:33,800
like a 70 degree temperature swing

1742
01:03:33,933 –> 01:03:35,433
but do you feel like that

1743
01:03:35,433 –> 01:03:40,300
that would even encourage a greater level of uh

1744
01:03:40,300 –> 01:03:42,433
like depth of character

1745
01:03:43,833 –> 01:03:45,833
I would imagine

1746
01:03:45,933 –> 01:03:47,233
yeah I think

1747
01:03:47,233 –> 01:03:49,200
that sounds like you all need to make some ice cider

1748
01:03:49,200 –> 01:03:50,200
in the high desert

1749
01:03:50,200 –> 01:03:51,866
I think that’s like

1750
01:03:51,866 –> 01:03:54,233
the only place you’re gonna get that right

1751
01:03:55,600 –> 01:03:56,566
love it yeah

1752
01:03:58,700 –> 01:04:00,600
stretch but 50 degrees

1753
01:04:02,666 –> 01:04:05,833
hi Ed hi there hi

1754
01:04:05,933 –> 01:04:06,733
how you doing

1755
01:04:06,733 –> 01:04:08,133
hi Bob you’re familiar

1756
01:04:08,133 –> 01:04:10,133
you’re familiar with Eden Ciders right Ed

1757
01:04:10,400 –> 01:04:12,466
yeah I I I consider Eleanor a friend

1758
01:04:12,466 –> 01:04:13,533
so she’s the one that gave

1759
01:04:13,533 –> 01:04:16,033
me the 7 pound number a long time ago

1760
01:04:16,033 –> 01:04:16,900
so I just I think it’s

1761
01:04:16,900 –> 01:04:18,933
I think it’s apple inflation is what happened

1762
01:04:18,933 –> 01:04:21,266
I think it’s just the two pounds now yeah

1763
01:04:21,266 –> 01:04:21,933
I think she’s like

1764
01:04:21,933 –> 01:04:23,733
I have to up my game here a little bit

1765
01:04:23,733 –> 01:04:25,666
I’m gonna go 8 pounds this time

1766
01:04:25,666 –> 01:04:27,633
so yeah and uh

1767
01:04:28,266 –> 01:04:31,100
the ice ciders will age really well

1768
01:04:31,100 –> 01:04:33,433
I didn’t have time to do shopping before this

1769
01:04:33,433 –> 01:04:37,200
so I pulled from my seller at 2013 Heirloom Blend

1770
01:04:37,400 –> 01:04:39,700
and oh man it’s so good

1771
01:04:39,700 –> 01:04:40,866
it’s so good yeah

1772
01:04:40,866 –> 01:04:42,633
look at the color on that yeah

1773
01:04:42,633 –> 01:04:43,933
look at this it’s so

1774
01:04:45,200 –> 01:04:46,300
yeah that’s wild

1775
01:04:46,300 –> 01:04:47,700
I I did it when I saw it

1776
01:04:47,700 –> 01:04:48,833
that’s why I messaged you guys

1777
01:04:48,833 –> 01:04:50,000
I said are you drinking heirloom blends

1778
01:04:50,000 –> 01:04:52,100
if not I was gonna go rummage around to find

1779
01:04:52,300 –> 01:04:53,633
whatever was your drinking but yeah

1780
01:04:53,633 –> 01:04:55,100
this is this is a 2013

1781
01:04:55,333 –> 01:04:57,500
do you have the barrel age

1782
01:04:57,500 –> 01:04:58,466
no it’s not even no

1783
01:04:58,466 –> 01:04:59,666
no I do have the barrel age

1784
01:04:59,666 –> 01:05:01,100
but that’s not it right

1785
01:05:01,100 –> 01:05:03,233
so that’s just oxidation yeah

1786
01:05:03,233 –> 01:05:05,100
they age beautifully on the shelf

1787
01:05:05,466 –> 01:05:07,500
so fun uh huh

1788
01:05:07,900 –> 01:05:10,600
it’s great okay

1789
01:05:10,600 –> 01:05:12,233
we’re we’re gonna try to be quiet for a minute

1790
01:05:12,233 –> 01:05:13,700
because we’ll just keep talking you guys

1791
01:05:13,700 –> 01:05:15,533
so if you guys have questions or thoughts

1792
01:05:15,700 –> 01:05:17,433
favorites thoughts

1793
01:05:17,533 –> 01:05:19,900
would you guys appreciate like

1794
01:05:19,900 –> 01:05:23,233
thank you okay

1795
01:05:23,233 –> 01:05:23,666
count and step

1796
01:05:23,666 –> 01:05:25,133
are you guys big cider drinkers

1797
01:05:26,500 –> 01:05:29,033
yeah you guys like cider yeah

1798
01:05:32,100 –> 01:05:33,400
we can’t hear you

1799
01:05:34,600 –> 01:05:36,533
I see you’re talking and you’re not muted

1800
01:05:36,533 –> 01:05:37,766
but we can’t hear you

1801
01:05:39,733 –> 01:05:41,433
yeah we’ll work it out

1802
01:05:41,433 –> 01:05:43,033
we’ll work it out right

1803
01:05:43,033 –> 01:05:44,700
is that better yeah

1804
01:05:45,833 –> 01:05:48,666
I like dry ciders so these are perfect

1805
01:05:48,666 –> 01:05:52,233
I’m not a big fan of sweet ciders yeah

1806
01:05:53,200 –> 01:05:55,600
there’s a winery outside of Santa Fe

1807
01:05:55,600 –> 01:05:57,800
that has nice dry ciders that we

1808
01:05:57,800 –> 01:06:00,166
we always buy bottles every time we’re there

1809
01:06:00,233 –> 01:06:02,266
Black Mesa oh

1810
01:06:02,266 –> 01:06:03,433
you have to let us know what that is

1811
01:06:03,433 –> 01:06:04,266
I’m not sure yeah

1812
01:06:04,266 –> 01:06:05,466
do you know the name of hand

1813
01:06:05,466 –> 01:06:06,800
it’s Black Mesa

1814
01:06:06,866 –> 01:06:07,633
oh Black Mesa

1815
01:06:07,633 –> 01:06:08,600
oh you just said that

1816
01:06:08,600 –> 01:06:10,600
yeah hmm that’s cool

1817
01:06:10,600 –> 01:06:11,633
that’s cool

1818
01:06:11,733 –> 01:06:12,933
I love Santa Fe

1819
01:06:13,400 –> 01:06:18,000
um what’s the cider house that’s near

1820
01:06:18,200 –> 01:06:20,333
common stuff that we also love

1821
01:06:21,266 –> 01:06:23,966
is it Bishop Arts or East Cyrus

1822
01:06:24,400 –> 01:06:26,800
I think for the two big Dallas ones

1823
01:06:26,800 –> 01:06:28,300
wait what were you thinking

1824
01:06:28,300 –> 01:06:29,433
no I’m sorry

1825
01:06:29,433 –> 01:06:31,266
I’m thinking like the Carolina is

1826
01:06:31,266 –> 01:06:32,800
I forgot you guys are into oh

1827
01:06:32,800 –> 01:06:33,800
botanist and barrel

1828
01:06:33,900 –> 01:06:34,800
oh they’re so great

1829
01:06:34,800 –> 01:06:36,166
I saw them last night

1830
01:06:36,333 –> 01:06:38,000
oh good tell them we said hi

1831
01:06:38,000 –> 01:06:39,333
we love box girl yeah

1832
01:06:39,333 –> 01:06:40,833
they’re out down in North Carolina

1833
01:06:40,833 –> 01:06:42,566
they’re actually down near Larissa

1834
01:06:42,633 –> 01:06:44,233
um stuff I misplaced

1835
01:06:45,866 –> 01:06:47,000
um yeah so Larissa

1836
01:06:47,000 –> 01:06:48,233
you’re kind of near botanist and barrel

1837
01:06:48,233 –> 01:06:48,866
you should check them out

1838
01:06:48,866 –> 01:06:50,466
but they do a lot of really fun

1839
01:06:50,466 –> 01:06:52,033
kind of native fermentation

1840
01:06:52,033 –> 01:06:53,100
fun things with fruits

1841
01:06:53,100 –> 01:06:55,000
like they do a lot of fun stuff too

1842
01:06:55,100 –> 01:06:56,400
for sure yeah

1843
01:06:57,133 –> 01:06:57,933
that’s a good oh

1844
01:06:57,933 –> 01:07:00,266
is there a particular glass that’s unique for cider

1845
01:07:00,266 –> 01:07:01,700
I’m not familiar with this

1846
01:07:01,866 –> 01:07:03,033
yeah Riley what do you think

1847
01:07:03,033 –> 01:07:03,933
what glass what glass

1848
01:07:03,933 –> 01:07:05,066
where do you drink your cider

1849
01:07:05,066 –> 01:07:07,166
make a cider glass yep

1850
01:07:07,466 –> 01:07:08,900
uh not really

1851
01:07:08,900 –> 01:07:10,800
um I think that the big

1852
01:07:10,800 –> 01:07:13,866
there’s two camps of pint glass or wine glass

1853
01:07:13,866 –> 01:07:17,233
I stand firmly in the all purpose wine glass camp

1854
01:07:17,400 –> 01:07:19,333
for cider um

1855
01:07:19,400 –> 01:07:20,200
sometimes ice cider

1856
01:07:20,200 –> 01:07:22,700
it’s nice out of a cordial glass just because it’s

1857
01:07:22,700 –> 01:07:24,300
it’s meant for a small pour

1858
01:07:24,500 –> 01:07:25,633
um but for me

1859
01:07:25,633 –> 01:07:27,433
I actually like my ice cider in a

1860
01:07:27,433 –> 01:07:29,333
all purpose glass for aromatics

1861
01:07:29,333 –> 01:07:30,300
that’s just me

1862
01:07:30,300 –> 01:07:32,100
I agree yeah

1863
01:07:32,400 –> 01:07:33,100
yeah I mean

1864
01:07:33,100 –> 01:07:37,300
it’s funny you would say that because I had grabbed my

1865
01:07:37,300 –> 01:07:38,300
I usually have like a

1866
01:07:38,300 –> 01:07:40,800
like a little nonic pint that I use for cider

1867
01:07:40,800 –> 01:07:41,600
but it’s a smaller one

1868
01:07:41,600 –> 01:07:42,700
it’s only 12 ounces

1869
01:07:42,700 –> 01:07:46,800
yeah and then when I saw Suzanne and

1870
01:07:47,200 –> 01:07:48,500
and Evan with their glasses

1871
01:07:48,500 –> 01:07:52,166
I quickly got up and went and got my wine glass haha

1872
01:07:52,233 –> 01:07:53,133
our suggestion

1873
01:07:53,133 –> 01:07:56,533
I got peer pressured into changing my glass room yeah

1874
01:07:56,533 –> 01:07:59,300
I used to be the tall Tulip when I’m checking slider

1875
01:07:59,666 –> 01:08:01,066
yeah I think it’s

1876
01:08:01,066 –> 01:08:02,733
I really think that’s a personal

1877
01:08:02,733 –> 01:08:03,733
subjective thing for me

1878
01:08:03,733 –> 01:08:06,200
cause I come from wine that it’s just

1879
01:08:06,200 –> 01:08:07,333
that’s how I you know

1880
01:08:07,333 –> 01:08:10,533
I like a smaller pour just so I can

1881
01:08:11,200 –> 01:08:12,733
drink more things maybe

1882
01:08:13,800 –> 01:08:15,800
yeah and I do think it is a little bit of like

1883
01:08:15,800 –> 01:08:17,800
whether you kind of think of cider

1884
01:08:18,266 –> 01:08:20,266
as a wine or a beer a little bit

1885
01:08:20,266 –> 01:08:20,933
you know like

1886
01:08:20,933 –> 01:08:21,933
and I do think

1887
01:08:22,100 –> 01:08:24,300
where a lot of people first encounter ciders

1888
01:08:24,300 –> 01:08:25,733
I do think is at breweries

1889
01:08:25,733 –> 01:08:28,333
you know or at beer bars or at

1890
01:08:28,333 –> 01:08:28,900
you know that’s

1891
01:08:28,900 –> 01:08:30,433
that’s an alternative cause it

1892
01:08:30,433 –> 01:08:31,433
it kind of started getting

1893
01:08:31,433 –> 01:08:32,666
a little mainstream with the like

1894
01:08:32,666 –> 01:08:36,000
this is a good gluten free alternative to beer right

1895
01:08:36,066 –> 01:08:39,000
and so I think it got really aligned with beer

1896
01:08:39,000 –> 01:08:40,933
because of that very early on

1897
01:08:40,933 –> 01:08:41,866
and so you know

1898
01:08:41,866 –> 01:08:43,066
of course beer

1899
01:08:43,066 –> 01:08:44,866
bars and breweries are gonna serve it in a pint glass

1900
01:08:44,866 –> 01:08:45,900
of course they are you know

1901
01:08:45,900 –> 01:08:47,433
that’s what the glass where they have all handed

1902
01:08:47,433 –> 01:08:48,466
yeah absolutely

1903
01:08:48,466 –> 01:08:49,666
and where is like

1904
01:08:49,666 –> 01:08:51,433
I definitely like

1905
01:08:51,666 –> 01:08:52,700
when I’m gonna drink a beer

1906
01:08:52,700 –> 01:08:53,933
like I don’t even think of cider

1907
01:08:53,933 –> 01:08:55,466
like it’s just a different thing to me

1908
01:08:55,466 –> 01:08:57,866
and so I always think of it as wine

1909
01:08:57,866 –> 01:09:00,000
and I have it with my cheese plate in a wine glass

1910
01:09:00,000 –> 01:09:01,233
or with my you know

1911
01:09:01,300 –> 01:09:02,266
I wonder too

1912
01:09:02,266 –> 01:09:04,133
if there’s even an avenue

1913
01:09:04,133 –> 01:09:05,200
well at least

1914
01:09:05,933 –> 01:09:07,033
at least here

1915
01:09:07,033 –> 01:09:08,500
but in general

1916
01:09:08,500 –> 01:09:09,200
given the kind

1917
01:09:09,200 –> 01:09:10,633
the conversation that we’re having earlier

1918
01:09:10,633 –> 01:09:12,600
with regard to the fact that generally

1919
01:09:12,866 –> 01:09:15,633
cider is a blend of multiple different

1920
01:09:15,633 –> 01:09:17,533
varietals of apples

1921
01:09:17,933 –> 01:09:19,733
and conversely

1922
01:09:19,833 –> 01:09:22,633
the the whole line of varietal wine

1923
01:09:22,633 –> 01:09:25,100
glass that Riddle has produced over the years

1924
01:09:25,533 –> 01:09:29,433
is because it’s a specific grape that

1925
01:09:29,833 –> 01:09:32,433
while it might be different if it’s grown in

1926
01:09:32,533 –> 01:09:35,366
borosa as opposed to northern Rome

1927
01:09:35,400 –> 01:09:39,533
saraw has some characteristics that are

1928
01:09:40,666 –> 01:09:44,300
universal and so a glass that might work for that

1929
01:09:44,300 –> 01:09:45,833
particular varietal

1930
01:09:46,500 –> 01:09:48,933
seems like it’s something that’s worthwhile to make

1931
01:09:48,933 –> 01:09:52,100
whereas um if you’re gonna combine

1932
01:09:52,100 –> 01:09:54,433
Macintosh and cabinet or um

1933
01:09:54,433 –> 01:09:55,666
Macintosh and yeah

1934
01:09:55,666 –> 01:09:56,300
they’re blended

1935
01:09:56,300 –> 01:09:57,933
so Kingston mostly

1936
01:09:58,133 –> 01:10:00,100
you’re not gonna have the

1937
01:10:00,500 –> 01:10:03,666
the opportunity to have a varietal glass

1938
01:10:03,666 –> 01:10:04,933
yeah for cider

1939
01:10:05,233 –> 01:10:06,900
yeah yeah yeah

1940
01:10:06,900 –> 01:10:08,133
so I think your standard wine glasses

1941
01:10:08,133 –> 01:10:09,133
that’s all they are answer

1942
01:10:09,133 –> 01:10:10,333
yep I’m works

1943
01:10:10,333 –> 01:10:11,700
I’m all in works for us

1944
01:10:11,700 –> 01:10:13,166
we already have too many glasses

1945
01:10:13,433 –> 01:10:15,300
we don’t need to have a whole set of cider glasses

1946
01:10:15,300 –> 01:10:16,766
on top of our wine glasses

1947
01:10:18,633 –> 01:10:20,566
so many glasses so many

1948
01:10:23,433 –> 01:10:28,700
hmm questions comments don’t be shy curiosities

1949
01:10:30,300 –> 01:10:32,700
this is so hard for me to stay quiet

1950
01:10:34,666 –> 01:10:36,033
I know this

1951
01:10:37,833 –> 01:10:39,933
I’ve got to try that one on the the grape skins

1952
01:10:39,933 –> 01:10:40,866
I haven’t had that

1953
01:10:40,866 –> 01:10:44,533
so that sounded so good when you were talking about it

1954
01:10:45,866 –> 01:10:49,300
that was a small batch run that we did yeah um

1955
01:10:49,300 –> 01:10:53,233
and it was a one off and it has sold like gangbusters

1956
01:10:53,233 –> 01:10:56,700
it actually won a top 10 cider in USA Today this year

1957
01:10:56,700 –> 01:10:58,033
oh wow yeah

1958
01:10:58,266 –> 01:11:00,500
yeah it was really exciting very cool

1959
01:11:00,733 –> 01:11:03,433
and we should get it out to you sooner than later

1960
01:11:03,900 –> 01:11:04,733
I’ll get there

1961
01:11:04,733 –> 01:11:09,400
I made do with another Eden that I had so perfect

1962
01:11:09,400 –> 01:11:11,266
so I can play along but yeah

1963
01:11:11,266 –> 01:11:13,100
that one that I think of the

1964
01:11:13,100 –> 01:11:14,300
the four that are there

1965
01:11:14,300 –> 01:11:15,300
that’s the one that I haven’t had

1966
01:11:15,300 –> 01:11:16,600
so I’ll get some now

1967
01:11:16,600 –> 01:11:17,733
what are you drinking

1968
01:11:18,300 –> 01:11:19,766
yeah whatever Eden went to

1969
01:11:19,800 –> 01:11:21,166
this was um

1970
01:11:21,266 –> 01:11:22,833
it’s a one of the seller series

1971
01:11:22,833 –> 01:11:24,133
it’s the Siren song

1972
01:11:24,133 –> 01:11:27,033
oh you lucky dog so yeah

1973
01:11:27,033 –> 01:11:30,400
sort of French style teller No. 9 yeah

1974
01:11:30,400 –> 01:11:31,400
yeah it’s really good

1975
01:11:31,400 –> 01:11:33,100
and then we did open

1976
01:11:33,433 –> 01:11:36,000
a crab apple one and from the seller series

1977
01:11:36,000 –> 01:11:38,666
um last year

1978
01:11:38,666 –> 01:11:42,100
sort of the fall last year and it was fantastic

1979
01:11:42,100 –> 01:11:43,100
I took a picture

1980
01:11:43,100 –> 01:11:45,166
I can’t remember which one it is off the top of my head

1981
01:11:45,233 –> 01:11:48,366
but it was drinking so well awesome

1982
01:11:48,400 –> 01:11:50,466
it was just so good yeah

1983
01:11:50,466 –> 01:11:52,000
the one on the the um

1984
01:11:52,000 –> 01:11:54,000
grape skins was probably my favorite tonight

1985
01:11:54,000 –> 01:11:56,000
it’s so sweet yeah

1986
01:11:56,633 –> 01:11:59,633
it has beautiful acidity that it has that wine like

1987
01:11:59,633 –> 01:12:04,266
acidity that like is just a little adjacent to cider

1988
01:12:04,266 –> 01:12:06,066
and it really the mouth feel is

1989
01:12:06,066 –> 01:12:08,200
hmm yeah yeah

1990
01:12:08,200 –> 01:12:11,566
and the aromatics that I feel like that you know

1991
01:12:12,233 –> 01:12:15,500
how long does the cider spend on those

1992
01:12:15,500 –> 01:12:17,333
the spent Riesling skins

1993
01:12:17,433 –> 01:12:19,500
it was two weeks okay

1994
01:12:19,500 –> 01:12:24,300
so it was 2 weeks with almost daily punchdowns

1995
01:12:24,700 –> 01:12:26,900
and this was post fermentation

1996
01:12:27,133 –> 01:12:28,466
during fermentation

1997
01:12:28,466 –> 01:12:29,733
during fermentation

1998
01:12:29,800 –> 01:12:31,000
so you’re getting

1999
01:12:31,533 –> 01:12:32,233
you’re getting

2000
01:12:32,233 –> 01:12:35,400
more extraction because the alcohol is a solvent and

2001
01:12:35,400 –> 01:12:37,800
helping to pull that stuff out oh yeah

2002
01:12:38,833 –> 01:12:40,200
did you use your standard

2003
01:12:40,800 –> 01:12:44,800
or they close with like a air lock like here

2004
01:12:45,700 –> 01:12:47,633
yeah so they’ll have an air lock

2005
01:12:48,000 –> 01:12:49,133
yeah yeah we

2006
01:12:49,133 –> 01:12:51,733
we have mostly variable capacity tanks

2007
01:12:53,000 –> 01:12:54,833
and then how does the punch that works out

2008
01:12:54,833 –> 01:12:57,000
mechanical inside the tank or uh no

2009
01:12:57,000 –> 01:13:00,433
we just take the lid off and take a like a long paddle

2010
01:13:00,433 –> 01:13:03,233
yeah ha ha ha ha like a lamp post

2011
01:13:03,233 –> 01:13:05,000
ha ha ha ha ha

2012
01:13:05,000 –> 01:13:08,366
it’s got a little X on it yeah ha ha

2013
01:13:09,533 –> 01:13:10,800
and there’s no oil right

2014
01:13:10,800 –> 01:13:11,633
it’s not like beer

2015
01:13:11,633 –> 01:13:12,633
right you go

2016
01:13:12,633 –> 01:13:15,266
you just ferment the juice as is

2017
01:13:15,266 –> 01:13:16,833
yep and that’s it

2018
01:13:16,833 –> 01:13:17,766
yeah that’s it

2019
01:13:18,900 –> 01:13:19,800
I’m realizing

2020
01:13:19,800 –> 01:13:23,033
um I missed a question from Jill earlier about

2021
01:13:23,133 –> 01:13:23,900
collaborations

2022
01:13:23,900 –> 01:13:26,066
if you if you guys have done collaborations

2023
01:13:26,066 –> 01:13:28,033
with other brands or other you know

2024
01:13:28,033 –> 01:13:29,966
you definitely collaborate with like

2025
01:13:30,000 –> 01:13:32,733
Vermont growers and Vermont kind of brands a lot

2026
01:13:32,733 –> 01:13:34,033
but I’d love to hear about

2027
01:13:34,033 –> 01:13:35,400
and Shelbourne Vineyards

2028
01:13:35,400 –> 01:13:36,466
yeah I don’t know her

2029
01:13:36,466 –> 01:13:37,600
about collaborations

2030
01:13:37,600 –> 01:13:39,500
that’s more than a collaboration also yeah

2031
01:13:39,500 –> 01:13:40,700
I’d love to hear about like

2032
01:13:40,700 –> 01:13:43,666
what the future of Eat Insiders is looking like

2033
01:13:43,666 –> 01:13:44,733
like especially with these

2034
01:13:44,733 –> 01:13:47,100
you know Shelbourne Vineyards and all of these changes

2035
01:13:47,100 –> 01:13:48,866
and so what are you excited about

2036
01:13:48,866 –> 01:13:50,133
kind of the future of Eden

2037
01:13:50,133 –> 01:13:51,666
as we kind of talk about what collaborations

2038
01:13:51,666 –> 01:13:52,633
you’ve done in the past

2039
01:13:52,633 –> 01:13:55,466
yeah um the answer is yes

2040
01:13:55,466 –> 01:13:56,966
I think collaborations

2041
01:13:57,066 –> 01:14:01,500
are so important for the success of any producer

2042
01:14:01,500 –> 01:14:02,833
I think that

2043
01:14:03,266 –> 01:14:06,433
existing in your own echo chamber is so dangerous

2044
01:14:06,633 –> 01:14:08,466
and there’s so many different techniques

2045
01:14:08,466 –> 01:14:10,100
and approaches and perspectives out there

2046
01:14:10,100 –> 01:14:12,600
that collaborations are necessary

2047
01:14:13,000 –> 01:14:14,533
so excellent question

2048
01:14:15,066 –> 01:14:19,633
we’ve done some notable collaborations with um

2049
01:14:20,000 –> 01:14:23,166
Tilted Shed and Sonoma

2050
01:14:23,533 –> 01:14:25,133
um we love Ellen

2051
01:14:25,133 –> 01:14:26,333
she’s amazing

2052
01:14:26,333 –> 01:14:29,833
we do a recurring collaboration with Ancho Cider

2053
01:14:29,933 –> 01:14:31,833
um down out of Virginia

2054
01:14:31,933 –> 01:14:33,900
and that one is really close to our hearts

2055
01:14:33,900 –> 01:14:36,433
um that that comes out every March

2056
01:14:36,433 –> 01:14:39,300
and it’s sort of we

2057
01:14:39,300 –> 01:14:40,833
we share um

2058
01:14:41,433 –> 01:14:42,466
juice so we’ll

2059
01:14:42,466 –> 01:14:44,900
we’ll ship juice back and forth to each other

2060
01:14:44,900 –> 01:14:49,600
so they’ll make one cider that’s called nevertheless

2061
01:14:49,700 –> 01:14:52,833
and we make one cider that’s called we processed

2062
01:14:53,066 –> 01:14:54,700
so it’s nevertheless we persist

2063
01:14:54,700 –> 01:14:56,233
and it’s for Women’s Month

2064
01:14:56,300 –> 01:14:58,266
um yeah nevertheless

2065
01:14:58,266 –> 01:14:59,700
we persisted yep

2066
01:15:00,000 –> 01:15:01,133
we persist yep

2067
01:15:01,133 –> 01:15:03,333
yep so that’s a notable one that’s recurring

2068
01:15:03,333 –> 01:15:05,733
so I love that one um

2069
01:15:05,733 –> 01:15:08,133
and then we also

2070
01:15:08,400 –> 01:15:09,633
I have a really exciting

2071
01:15:09,633 –> 01:15:13,033
project that’s coming out in may with a small um

2072
01:15:13,233 –> 01:15:15,833
specialty grocery store in Philadelphia area

2073
01:15:15,833 –> 01:15:17,700
The Bruno Brothers is what it’s called

2074
01:15:17,700 –> 01:15:20,233
if anyone’s from that area um

2075
01:15:20,500 –> 01:15:22,233
but we are doing

2076
01:15:22,800 –> 01:15:25,200
um a a co ferment

2077
01:15:25,233 –> 01:15:27,500
which is leads me to my next point

2078
01:15:27,500 –> 01:15:30,166
that’s what I’m excited about um

2079
01:15:30,500 –> 01:15:33,033
apples and grapes fermented together

2080
01:15:33,200 –> 01:15:34,333
apples and plums

2081
01:15:34,333 –> 01:15:35,733
apples and peaches

2082
01:15:35,800 –> 01:15:38,433
grapes and apples and quince

2083
01:15:38,433 –> 01:15:41,300
why not growing what

2084
01:15:41,300 –> 01:15:42,733
what fermenting

2085
01:15:42,733 –> 01:15:44,033
what grows in abundance

2086
01:15:44,033 –> 01:15:45,233
where we are

2087
01:15:45,400 –> 01:15:47,466
is really the future

2088
01:15:47,466 –> 01:15:49,400
I mean yeah

2089
01:15:49,400 –> 01:15:50,366
look around

2090
01:15:50,400 –> 01:15:51,500
global whatever

2091
01:15:51,500 –> 01:15:52,733
I don’t wanna get political

2092
01:15:52,733 –> 01:15:58,733
but what’s gonna grow where is tenuous at best

2093
01:15:58,733 –> 01:16:02,900
so attaching ourselves to one style

2094
01:16:03,266 –> 01:16:05,200
or being very dogmatic

2095
01:16:05,200 –> 01:16:08,000
about what we’re gonna grow and what we’re gonna press

2096
01:16:08,000 –> 01:16:10,700
is only going to lead us to failure

2097
01:16:10,700 –> 01:16:13,266
because we are completely at the whim of Mother Nature

2098
01:16:13,266 –> 01:16:14,833
it’s an agricultural product

2099
01:16:15,066 –> 01:16:18,033
and we’re in a tough growing region um

2100
01:16:18,033 –> 01:16:19,633
so this year

2101
01:16:19,633 –> 01:16:21,133
for instance um

2102
01:16:21,500 –> 01:16:25,133
we had a very devastating late season frost in may

2103
01:16:25,400 –> 01:16:27,500
and many producers

2104
01:16:27,500 –> 01:16:31,300
had 100% crop loss so like

2105
01:16:32,300 –> 01:16:33,866
I’m just gonna leave that there for a second

2106
01:16:33,866 –> 01:16:35,800
100% crop loss

2107
01:16:35,800 –> 01:16:36,866
that does not happen

2108
01:16:36,866 –> 01:16:39,133
like there’s tough years

2109
01:16:39,133 –> 01:16:42,100
but this is serious um

2110
01:16:42,100 –> 01:16:43,733
so we’re gonna need to be

2111
01:16:43,833 –> 01:16:46,033
community where there’s a lot of

2112
01:16:46,033 –> 01:16:47,133
I have apples

2113
01:16:47,133 –> 01:16:49,100
because I’m a little further north

2114
01:16:49,100 –> 01:16:52,266
so my trees weren’t as vulnerable

2115
01:16:52,266 –> 01:16:54,566
they hadn’t gone so far into

2116
01:16:54,933 –> 01:16:56,233
you know ripening

2117
01:16:56,233 –> 01:16:58,000
into bud break we call it

2118
01:16:58,433 –> 01:17:00,833
so those apples were able to grow and ripen

2119
01:17:01,833 –> 01:17:03,100
our Vineyard partners

2120
01:17:03,100 –> 01:17:05,666
had about 60% crop loss from their grapes

2121
01:17:05,666 –> 01:17:06,466
from the frost

2122
01:17:06,466 –> 01:17:10,066
so just to achieve the volume that they really need

2123
01:17:10,066 –> 01:17:12,900
we’re going to be doing a lot of apple grape coferments

2124
01:17:13,200 –> 01:17:15,666
and I started this whole Tangent with this

2125
01:17:15,666 –> 01:17:18,400
project that we’re doing with a specialty grocery store

2126
01:17:18,466 –> 01:17:20,833
which is a cider

2127
01:17:20,833 –> 01:17:23,200
pet net that is fermented

2128
01:17:23,266 –> 01:17:25,166
with a little bit of white

2129
01:17:26,300 –> 01:17:30,100
white wine and on red grape skins

2130
01:17:31,466 –> 01:17:33,366
it’s kind of like making soup

2131
01:17:34,700 –> 01:17:37,800
but I think this yeah

2132
01:17:38,300 –> 01:17:39,933
that’s the kind of soup I eat yeah

2133
01:17:39,933 –> 01:17:43,100
yeah so I think that’s something that’s super exciting

2134
01:17:43,100 –> 01:17:47,033
for me is that often when those things are co fermented

2135
01:17:47,033 –> 01:17:49,500
when they’re all in the tank together um

2136
01:17:49,500 –> 01:17:52,233
they’re very often greater than the some of their parts

2137
01:17:52,400 –> 01:17:55,833
and it’s almost a whole new frontier of fermented

2138
01:17:55,833 –> 01:18:01,300
beverages that is like the limit does not exist of that

2139
01:18:01,300 –> 01:18:04,733
algorithm of apple varieties and great varieties and

2140
01:18:04,800 –> 01:18:06,766
whatever else is growing rose

2141
01:18:06,900 –> 01:18:08,400
why not you know

2142
01:18:08,533 –> 01:18:11,766
so I think that’s sort of the future

2143
01:18:12,000 –> 01:18:13,133
if you ask me

2144
01:18:13,133 –> 01:18:15,233
I hope Riley

2145
01:18:15,233 –> 01:18:17,733
with that kind of concept

2146
01:18:18,733 –> 01:18:20,100
co fermenting

2147
01:18:20,933 –> 01:18:23,933
you know different versions of the same fruit

2148
01:18:23,933 –> 01:18:26,233
I e you know

2149
01:18:27,200 –> 01:18:31,033
green ganache and Sara and marvendra

2150
01:18:31,866 –> 01:18:36,966
versus co fermenting fruits of completely different

2151
01:18:37,133 –> 01:18:38,600
you know families

2152
01:18:38,900 –> 01:18:42,600
co fermenting pineapple with plum and an apple

2153
01:18:42,800 –> 01:18:44,033
what is that

2154
01:18:44,300 –> 01:18:47,433
how does that impact the

2155
01:18:48,533 –> 01:18:50,233
the east selection

2156
01:18:50,300 –> 01:18:52,033
the fermentation time

2157
01:18:52,033 –> 01:18:53,066
the fermentation temperature

2158
01:18:53,066 –> 01:18:54,900
like I I’m guessing outside in general

2159
01:18:54,900 –> 01:18:57,200
that’s that’s the frontier that we’re looking at

2160
01:18:57,200 –> 01:19:01,233
but do you have any kind of insight as to like the

2161
01:19:01,333 –> 01:19:05,066
restrictions or the challenges of co fermentation

2162
01:19:05,066 –> 01:19:07,400
when it’s different fruit that you’re fermenting

2163
01:19:07,400 –> 01:19:11,366
together yeah so um

2164
01:19:12,100 –> 01:19:16,300
obviously the ripening time is a consideration um

2165
01:19:16,800 –> 01:19:21,766
so you don’t necessarily want to throw um

2166
01:19:22,633 –> 01:19:24,333
this is mine of fermenting

2167
01:19:24,333 –> 01:19:28,233
fruit in with an already finished wine um

2168
01:19:28,433 –> 01:19:30,666
you just don’t really know what another fermentation is

2169
01:19:30,666 –> 01:19:32,100
gonna do um

2170
01:19:32,666 –> 01:19:35,800
so that’s definitely a consideration uh

2171
01:19:36,033 –> 01:19:39,733
but it’s also the concept of what grows together

2172
01:19:39,733 –> 01:19:40,800
goes together

2173
01:19:40,866 –> 01:19:43,533
apple harvest and grape harvest is the same time

2174
01:19:44,100 –> 01:19:46,600
um so there’s that uh

2175
01:19:46,600 –> 01:19:48,400
but there’s also

2176
01:19:48,733 –> 01:19:52,166
as we sort of navigate this uncertain frontier

2177
01:19:53,133 –> 01:19:54,633
it’s a bit of an insurance policy

2178
01:19:54,633 –> 01:19:57,900
if you can ferment some plums

2179
01:19:58,233 –> 01:20:01,533
and start fermenting some plums in may

2180
01:20:02,900 –> 01:20:05,800
you have this kind of cool

2181
01:20:05,800 –> 01:20:12,233
like reserve of something to play with and um sort of

2182
01:20:12,633 –> 01:20:15,033
experiment with in the fall when other things are being

2183
01:20:15,033 –> 01:20:18,200
harvested or say you have uh

2184
01:20:18,433 –> 01:20:21,100
a tough fermentation on a cider

2185
01:20:21,100 –> 01:20:24,533
but you’re able to have some

2186
01:20:25,400 –> 01:20:26,900
you know what ripens then

2187
01:20:26,900 –> 01:20:29,133
like raspberry or something

2188
01:20:29,133 –> 01:20:31,066
that could sort of help a fermentation along

2189
01:20:31,066 –> 01:20:32,733
if you’re in a stuck fermentation

2190
01:20:33,033 –> 01:20:36,600
yeah introduce a little more sugar and don’t start it

2191
01:20:36,600 –> 01:20:40,066
yeah what I do it is no

2192
01:20:40,066 –> 01:20:41,133
it’s probably not

2193
01:20:41,133 –> 01:20:43,266
because I would wanna sell it and make sure it’s good

2194
01:20:43,266 –> 01:20:45,033
but scientifically yes

2195
01:20:45,033 –> 01:20:46,000
you could do that

2196
01:20:46,200 –> 01:20:48,433
no I’m just curious

2197
01:20:48,433 –> 01:20:50,500
that’s yeah

2198
01:20:50,500 –> 01:20:51,300
such fun stuff

2199
01:20:51,300 –> 01:20:53,900
delightful yeah

2200
01:20:54,400 –> 01:20:55,266
the world of

2201
01:20:55,266 –> 01:20:57,700
the world of cider and craft alcohol in general

2202
01:20:57,700 –> 01:20:58,966
is really just

2203
01:20:59,033 –> 01:21:00,466
it keeps growing

2204
01:21:00,466 –> 01:21:03,066
and as people stop being

2205
01:21:03,066 –> 01:21:06,033
so concerned about their categories yeah

2206
01:21:09,033 –> 01:21:11,433
and soon the government might catch up

2207
01:21:12,466 –> 01:21:14,533
yeah that is the for labeling regulations

2208
01:21:14,533 –> 01:21:18,333
it’s a bit of a hellscape right now but yeah

2209
01:21:18,333 –> 01:21:20,833
how to label it how to what you name it what yeah

2210
01:21:21,000 –> 01:21:23,800
the wild rest right now though yeah

2211
01:21:24,200 –> 01:21:26,200
there’s a lot of sparkling fruit wines out there

2212
01:21:26,200 –> 01:21:27,366
that’s for sure

2213
01:21:28,866 –> 01:21:30,100
there are a lot of sparkling fruit

2214
01:21:30,100 –> 01:21:32,633
we met a wine maker here in Arizona recently

2215
01:21:32,633 –> 01:21:36,200
oh yeah on follows winery is the name of his on follows

2216
01:21:36,300 –> 01:21:37,766
which is a Greek

2217
01:21:37,833 –> 01:21:41,566
term that basically indicates the center of all things

2218
01:21:42,400 –> 01:21:43,500
center of the universe

2219
01:21:43,700 –> 01:21:47,900
and he made an award winning tomato wine

2220
01:21:48,400 –> 01:21:49,300
a few years ago

2221
01:21:49,300 –> 01:21:51,366
award winning tomato wine

2222
01:21:51,466 –> 01:21:54,233
it was the best in the fruit wine category

2223
01:21:55,133 –> 01:21:57,066
yes tomato yeah

2224
01:21:57,066 –> 01:21:58,300
we were like what

2225
01:21:58,300 –> 01:22:00,733
we were at a private dinner party with him

2226
01:22:00,733 –> 01:22:01,200
and we’re like

2227
01:22:01,200 –> 01:22:02,933
what did that taste like

2228
01:22:02,933 –> 01:22:04,266
like what are you talking about

2229
01:22:04,266 –> 01:22:05,633
like we were just like

2230
01:22:05,633 –> 01:22:07,066
and even make it again

2231
01:22:07,066 –> 01:22:08,633
and even he is like he’s like

2232
01:22:08,633 –> 01:22:10,700
I don’t know if it was good

2233
01:22:13,000 –> 01:22:17,866
but it was exceptional because of what it was made from

2234
01:22:17,866 –> 01:22:20,500
and I mean I’ve always thought that like

2235
01:22:20,500 –> 01:22:22,233
of all the fruit out there

2236
01:22:23,000 –> 01:22:26,133
tomatoes are pretty high up there

2237
01:22:26,133 –> 01:22:28,800
on the things that I would think are important

2238
01:22:29,200 –> 01:22:31,200
for being able to make wine out of it

2239
01:22:31,200 –> 01:22:33,600
because they have so much more acidity than like

2240
01:22:33,600 –> 01:22:34,633
so many other fruits

2241
01:22:34,633 –> 01:22:36,766
yeah and that’s so important

2242
01:22:37,200 –> 01:22:39,233
when you’re trying to make something that has

2243
01:22:39,266 –> 01:22:40,500
cohesive structure

2244
01:22:40,500 –> 01:22:42,800
but the other fruit wine he made that his wife

2245
01:22:42,800 –> 01:22:44,300
who is in his partner

2246
01:22:44,333 –> 01:22:46,333
said was her favorite that they’ve ever made

2247
01:22:46,333 –> 01:22:48,066
was a spiced orange wine

2248
01:22:48,066 –> 01:22:49,166
and I was like

2249
01:22:49,266 –> 01:22:50,800
this orange wine

2250
01:22:50,800 –> 01:22:51,700
like that does

2251
01:22:52,266 –> 01:22:52,933
interesting

2252
01:22:52,933 –> 01:22:53,900
yeah it’s so

2253
01:22:53,900 –> 01:22:56,433
it’s the citrus orange

2254
01:22:56,433 –> 01:22:57,800
not like a skin contact

2255
01:22:57,800 –> 01:22:59,066
once yeah yeah

2256
01:22:59,066 –> 01:23:01,500
they also made one from um

2257
01:23:02,933 –> 01:23:04,333
it’s the bush

2258
01:23:04,700 –> 01:23:06,033
oh I can’t it’s the bush

2259
01:23:06,033 –> 01:23:07,266
I didn’t even know the name of the bush

2260
01:23:07,266 –> 01:23:09,200
that has a bunch of little red berries on it

2261
01:23:09,200 –> 01:23:10,566
it’s here in Arizona

2262
01:23:11,200 –> 01:23:13,700
erronea a little red berries

2263
01:23:13,700 –> 01:23:15,033
and I can’t forget

2264
01:23:15,033 –> 01:23:15,466
what are they

2265
01:23:15,466 –> 01:23:18,200
erronea berries no berries

2266
01:23:19,066 –> 01:23:20,433
Bob Kristen

2267
01:23:20,800 –> 01:23:21,866
little red Berry

2268
01:23:21,866 –> 01:23:23,033
unmute yourself

2269
01:23:23,033 –> 01:23:27,200
tell me what the little red Berry plant is that Arizona

2270
01:23:28,800 –> 01:23:33,400
pyrocantum pyrocantum pyrocantum wine like what

2271
01:23:33,400 –> 01:23:35,033
wow it’s crazy

2272
01:23:35,066 –> 01:23:37,066
and he’s like it’s only toxic and high volume

2273
01:23:37,066 –> 01:23:39,233
you’ll never drink that

2274
01:23:40,600 –> 01:23:42,366
well don’t just steal it

2275
01:23:42,400 –> 01:23:43,633
wait Riley before we

2276
01:23:43,633 –> 01:23:44,700
before we let you go

2277
01:23:44,700 –> 01:23:45,500
you said at the beginning

2278
01:23:45,500 –> 01:23:47,533
when you’re introducing yourself that your background

2279
01:23:47,533 –> 01:23:50,500
you come from the world of natural wine yes

2280
01:23:50,833 –> 01:23:52,333
tell us a little bit about

2281
01:23:52,333 –> 01:23:54,000
what’s going on in the world of natural wine

2282
01:23:54,000 –> 01:23:55,233
if you’re still connected there at all

2283
01:23:55,233 –> 01:23:56,133
and have thoughts about that

2284
01:23:56,133 –> 01:23:57,633
cause I love natural wine

2285
01:23:57,633 –> 01:24:01,033
Evan is a little more disturning about natural wine

2286
01:24:01,333 –> 01:24:02,833
I really love orange wines

2287
01:24:02,833 –> 01:24:04,833
the funkier the better like so

2288
01:24:04,833 –> 01:24:05,333
you know like

2289
01:24:05,333 –> 01:24:08,266
I just help people understand what natural wine even is

2290
01:24:08,266 –> 01:24:11,033
just before we kind of close out here to because

2291
01:24:11,233 –> 01:24:12,133
because sip Scout members

2292
01:24:12,133 –> 01:24:14,433
I would love to do a natural wine kit in the future

2293
01:24:14,433 –> 01:24:16,933
so I have more natural wine in the world

2294
01:24:17,066 –> 01:24:21,300
um yeah natural wine is another one of these

2295
01:24:21,466 –> 01:24:23,600
pesky phrases that there is

2296
01:24:24,066 –> 01:24:27,566
not one necessarily agreed upon definition

2297
01:24:27,833 –> 01:24:30,800
um but there is a bit of an umbrella that

2298
01:24:30,800 –> 01:24:32,500
that a few um

2299
01:24:32,800 –> 01:24:35,400
philosophical wine making

2300
01:24:36,133 –> 01:24:37,833
uh wine making

2301
01:24:38,200 –> 01:24:39,800
uh methodology

2302
01:24:40,066 –> 01:24:42,733
um that is basically

2303
01:24:43,300 –> 01:24:46,733
non intervention along the process of wine making

2304
01:24:46,733 –> 01:24:48,933
um so it starts

2305
01:24:49,133 –> 01:24:50,933
it really starts with the soil

2306
01:24:50,933 –> 01:24:53,500
but it starts in the Vineyard broadly

2307
01:24:53,666 –> 01:24:57,600
um so grapes that are grown without uh

2308
01:24:57,600 –> 01:25:00,366
pesticide sprays um

2309
01:25:01,033 –> 01:25:03,000
usually grown at least uh

2310
01:25:03,000 –> 01:25:05,333
sustainably or practicing organic even

2311
01:25:05,333 –> 01:25:07,100
if they’re not certified organic

2312
01:25:07,600 –> 01:25:10,700
um so fruit that is uh

2313
01:25:11,800 –> 01:25:14,333
grown without chemical sprays

2314
01:25:15,033 –> 01:25:17,000
and then in the cellar

2315
01:25:17,000 –> 01:25:19,500
once those grapes are picked and pressed

2316
01:25:19,866 –> 01:25:24,966
uh there is no filtration on the wines um

2317
01:25:25,266 –> 01:25:27,700
usually native yeast fermented

2318
01:25:27,700 –> 01:25:31,500
so ambient yeasts and yeast that occur on the grapes

2319
01:25:31,833 –> 01:25:33,066
um like I said

2320
01:25:33,066 –> 01:25:38,066
no filtration or fining and no added sulfur at bottling

2321
01:25:38,066 –> 01:25:42,133
so only the naturally occurring sulfites so it’s um

2322
01:25:42,733 –> 01:25:47,133
it’s the way that wine was made forever before

2323
01:25:47,133 –> 01:25:48,633
you know the industrial

2324
01:25:49,233 –> 01:25:52,966
Revolution when we had all these innovations and um

2325
01:25:53,466 –> 01:25:54,733
I would add Riley

2326
01:25:54,733 –> 01:26:00,633
perhaps minimal to no irrigation yes yes

2327
01:26:02,733 –> 01:26:05,000
yes and the

2328
01:26:05,000 –> 01:26:07,633
some of the criticism of natural wine is that

2329
01:26:07,900 –> 01:26:10,700
people are not clean and sterile

2330
01:26:10,733 –> 01:26:13,033
well and and so people say oh

2331
01:26:13,033 –> 01:26:15,900
it’s just a natural wine as like an excuse for bad wine

2332
01:26:15,900 –> 01:26:17,800
but it tastes like that yeah

2333
01:26:18,433 –> 01:26:18,800
they’re like

2334
01:26:18,800 –> 01:26:20,266
oh it’s just because it’s natural

2335
01:26:20,266 –> 01:26:20,933
but really it’s like

2336
01:26:20,933 –> 01:26:21,800
because they don’t know what

2337
01:26:21,800 –> 01:26:24,033
they don’t know what they’re doing and they’re holding

2338
01:26:24,833 –> 01:26:26,333
the thing that you made it in

2339
01:26:26,333 –> 01:26:28,000
yeah yeah um

2340
01:26:28,233 –> 01:26:29,233
so I’m more than

2341
01:26:29,233 –> 01:26:30,800
I’m more than a little bit

2342
01:26:30,800 –> 01:26:32,900
uh resistant

2343
01:26:32,900 –> 01:26:34,200
you’ve been burned

2344
01:26:34,600 –> 01:26:39,233
yeah but we have a great friend here in the Sedona area

2345
01:26:39,233 –> 01:26:41,300
who has a natural wine shop actually

2346
01:26:41,300 –> 01:26:43,000
and all he has is natural wine

2347
01:26:43,000 –> 01:26:44,700
and so he knows that Evan’s been burned

2348
01:26:44,700 –> 01:26:47,233
and so he’s constantly bringing natural wise

2349
01:26:47,233 –> 01:26:47,500
and he’s like

2350
01:26:47,500 –> 01:26:48,833
no no this is a clean one

2351
01:26:48,833 –> 01:26:50,500
this is one that you’re going to be excited about

2352
01:26:50,500 –> 01:26:51,633
and so you’ve had a

2353
01:26:51,633 –> 01:26:53,333
quite a few examples that you’ve enjoyed

2354
01:26:53,333 –> 01:26:54,700
it can be done

2355
01:26:54,700 –> 01:26:58,933
yeah yeah and the idea of a flaw being a virtue

2356
01:26:59,300 –> 01:27:02,900
is maybe just a little bit of a dichopomy that I

2357
01:27:02,900 –> 01:27:05,933
can’t really get on board with sometimes

2358
01:27:06,833 –> 01:27:09,233
yeah I think that there’s um

2359
01:27:09,233 –> 01:27:11,666
also an aspect I’m sorry

2360
01:27:11,666 –> 01:27:15,533
I think there’s also an aspect to that culture of um

2361
01:27:16,866 –> 01:27:19,133
the story of the person and

2362
01:27:19,133 –> 01:27:21,333
and the land where it comes from

2363
01:27:21,333 –> 01:27:23,666
so there’s a lot more to the drinking

2364
01:27:23,666 –> 01:27:26,133
experience than what it just tastes like

2365
01:27:26,133 –> 01:27:26,900
but I’m with you

2366
01:27:26,900 –> 01:27:27,866
Evan that like

2367
01:27:27,866 –> 01:27:29,600
it should first taste good first

2368
01:27:29,600 –> 01:27:30,433
it should taste good

2369
01:27:31,200 –> 01:27:33,133
I would like it to first taste good

2370
01:27:33,200 –> 01:27:34,300
but I see value

2371
01:27:34,466 –> 01:27:36,366
I see value even in

2372
01:27:36,666 –> 01:27:39,933
you know maybe experiencing a slightly flawed wine

2373
01:27:40,000 –> 01:27:41,033
yeah for sure

2374
01:27:41,033 –> 01:27:42,066
and sometimes like

2375
01:27:42,066 –> 01:27:43,600
I don’t have a particularly

2376
01:27:46,133 –> 01:27:49,600
keen perception of fraternitis

2377
01:27:49,600 –> 01:27:51,166
for example sure

2378
01:27:51,333 –> 01:27:55,100
and I recognize that I enjoy it in some beer

2379
01:27:55,300 –> 01:27:59,033
and so that’s fine in some wine in

2380
01:27:59,266 –> 01:28:00,766
especially like in Pinot

2381
01:28:01,100 –> 01:28:03,366
a slight bit of that

2382
01:28:04,266 –> 01:28:05,700
yeah a key auntie

2383
01:28:06,300 –> 01:28:09,633
yeah yeah when it just tastes like nail polish remover

2384
01:28:09,633 –> 01:28:12,433
no you don’t get to just like shove it off and be like

2385
01:28:12,433 –> 01:28:14,800
this is a natural nail polish remover yeah

2386
01:28:16,533 –> 01:28:17,633
not what I want to drink

2387
01:28:17,633 –> 01:28:18,500
not the thing

2388
01:28:18,800 –> 01:28:20,600
but it is a very exciting category

2389
01:28:20,600 –> 01:28:22,133
that’s starting to pick up some

2390
01:28:22,133 –> 01:28:23,433
steam here in the States

2391
01:28:23,433 –> 01:28:26,733
so if you see natural wine shops or natural wine

2392
01:28:26,733 –> 01:28:28,333
like go talk to someone

2393
01:28:28,333 –> 01:28:30,466
try and have them steer you to

2394
01:28:30,466 –> 01:28:31,000
if you if you

2395
01:28:31,000 –> 01:28:32,400
I feel like if you say

2396
01:28:32,400 –> 01:28:34,700
I like the cleaner kind of natural lines

2397
01:28:34,700 –> 01:28:37,333
that usually get you in a good starting point now

2398
01:28:37,333 –> 01:28:39,666
because some of them can get very funky

2399
01:28:39,666 –> 01:28:41,900
and sometimes that funkiness is a flaw

2400
01:28:42,000 –> 01:28:44,300
and sometimes that funkiness is really fun

2401
01:28:44,300 –> 01:28:45,900
but the funky ones are a little

2402
01:28:45,900 –> 01:28:47,000
a little riskier

2403
01:28:47,133 –> 01:28:49,700
probably and be polarizing for sure yeah

2404
01:28:50,600 –> 01:28:53,200
Riley thank you so much for joining us tonight

2405
01:28:53,200 –> 01:28:54,500
this was so amazing

2406
01:28:54,500 –> 01:28:57,233
and eat insiders never disappoints

2407
01:28:57,233 –> 01:28:58,000
like you guys

2408
01:28:58,000 –> 01:28:59,966
everything I’ve ever had of yours I just

2409
01:29:00,033 –> 01:29:01,266
I’m thrilled with yeah

2410
01:29:01,266 –> 01:29:02,633
these were all delightful

2411
01:29:02,633 –> 01:29:03,900
yeah thank you

2412
01:29:03,900 –> 01:29:05,000
everyone here

2413
01:29:05,000 –> 01:29:07,000
the promo codes are in the chat

2414
01:29:07,000 –> 01:29:09,033
go stock up on some Eden cider

2415
01:29:09,033 –> 01:29:10,700
and other great craft ciders at press

2416
01:29:10,700 –> 01:29:12,900
then press um

2417
01:29:12,900 –> 01:29:13,833
and you know

2418
01:29:13,833 –> 01:29:14,500
follow along

2419
01:29:14,500 –> 01:29:15,833
eat insiders on Instagram

2420
01:29:15,833 –> 01:29:17,033
and keep an eye on what they’re doing

2421
01:29:17,033 –> 01:29:17,733
and if you’re in

2422
01:29:17,733 –> 01:29:19,333
you guys have a tasting room up in Vermont

2423
01:29:19,333 –> 01:29:20,800
people yeah

2424
01:29:20,800 –> 01:29:22,200
so in Vermont

2425
01:29:22,200 –> 01:29:24,300
you know go check them out and go

2426
01:29:24,833 –> 01:29:26,666
meet them in person and try their stuff

2427
01:29:26,666 –> 01:29:29,666
and visit the nearby town of Burlington is a delight

2428
01:29:29,666 –> 01:29:33,800
and a very worthwhile place to spend a week and go

2429
01:29:33,933 –> 01:29:36,200
yeah reverse out to Eden

2430
01:29:36,200 –> 01:29:37,066
yeah for sure

2431
01:29:37,066 –> 01:29:39,000
what’s to do and see yeah

2432
01:29:39,533 –> 01:29:41,533
everyone cheers

2433
01:29:41,666 –> 01:29:42,500
happy Thursday

2434
01:29:42,500 –> 01:29:43,800
thank you for joining us

2435
01:29:43,800 –> 01:29:44,800
thank you thank you

2436
01:29:45,466 –> 01:29:46,933
Riley thank you Riley

2437
01:29:47,266 –> 01:29:49,333
at all to say hi

2438
01:29:49,733 –> 01:29:50,733
thank you yes

2439
01:29:50,733 –> 01:29:52,733
so you do yeah

2440
01:29:52,733 –> 01:29:53,400
and as well

2441
01:29:53,400 –> 01:29:55,933
and good to see you all everyone

2442
01:29:55,933 –> 01:29:56,700
good to see you

2443
01:29:56,700 –> 01:29:57,933
thank you for joining us

2444
01:29:57,933 –> 01:29:59,000
for having me

2445
01:29:59,000 –> 01:30:00,833
take care bye guys bye

2446
01:30:01,066 –> 01:30:02,933
thank you bye bye

2447
00:00:04,666 –> 00:00:09,333
welcome welcome to our Monthly SipScout Party

Bottles of craft beer, wine, and spirits

Are You A Craft Drink Explorer?

Do you want access to exclusive, hard to find, or lesser known craft alcohol like those we featured here?

Then you, my friend…are in the right place! Join the first and only rotating craft alcohol membership club to get each kit that goes along with our monthly SipScout party and join in on the fun!

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About Your Hosts

The Crafty Cask celebrates and supports craft alcohol makers through engaging consumer content, events, virtual tastings, and online education. We help craft enthusiasts drink better and craft makers market their brands better to build thriving small businesses that keep #TipplerNation drinking well!

Your hosts for this event, alongside the featured maker, are Suzanne Henricksen, Founder of The Crafty Cask and Evan Rothrock, sommelier, certified cider professional, mixologist, and bespoke wine tour guide.

Until next time… Drink craft and drink the world. Cheers!

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SipScout 2023 American Single Malt Tasting with the Makers
Meet the Makers: American Single Malt Whiskey Tasting!

Meet the Makers: American Single Malt Whiskey Tasting!

Meet four of the six craft distillers featured in this month's SipScout kit as we taste through and learn all about the burgeoning category of American Single Malt Whiskeys!

This month our SipScout members are sipping on:

1) Dampfwerk Distilling ASM Batch No. 2
2) Copperworks Distilling ASM Release 047
3) Boulder Spirits ASM
4) Jettywave Distillery Maratime ASMW
5) Santa Fe Spirits Colkegan ASMW
6) 10th Street Distillery Distiller's Cut Peated ASM

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