Finnriver Craft Cider Tasting Party

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Hello Hello every one

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Hi! Welcome..

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Welcome

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Ready for cider drinking tonight? uhm uhm..

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cider is one of my all-time favorites so I
am very excited about this and I’ve become

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a big fan of it thanks to you as well yeah
for sure for sure [Music] hey Andrew how are

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you

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cute there we go I’m doing great nice to see
you both again uh we can’t hear you hold on

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maybe that’s on my end there we go we got
you fantastic nice to see you both again oh

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yeah what’s it been at least a year if not
longer we were just talking about the last

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virtual tasting where you joined us it was
so much fun not for the blip it seems also

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things move fastly sis determinable amount
of time has passed in almost no time with

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the same breath I know really so welcome everyone
um we are here tonight Andrew is the head

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cider maker and co-owner yes we are very excited
to have him here we’re gonna get started momentarily

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but we have our three ciders here if you got
your SipScout kit this month these are the

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three ciders you have in your kit and man
we’re super excited about these we’ve been

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drinking thin River cider for quite a while
um trying to remember when when I discovered

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them originally um but when I really started
getting into craft cider you know there’s

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the big farm to table movement you hear a
lot of in you know the in the dining world

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in the food world and then you sometimes hear
about grain the glass and the distilling world

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and farmed glass and as soon as I heard the
story of Finn River I was like oh man this

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is like real craft and really like supporting
local farmers and having a farm like a state

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there they have a really cool story that you’re
going to hear a lot about tonight from Andrew

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um supporting them and actually Andrew since
we have you here yeah we’ve had an idea in

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mind as to how we would drink these what order
um defer to you so functionally I feel like

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we should set the palette with Farmstead uh
and kind of get to that point of text taste

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like cider smells like cider tastes like apple
smells like apples that kind of thing it sets

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a good groundwork um whereas the other two
present uh sorry my stash is behind me the

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other two present uh uh adjuncts and and those
adjuncts you know being uh you know herbaceous

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Botanicals versus uh stone fruit um and they
feel like deviations from a form so my thinking

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is that we would start with something that
is just off dry uh again Apple Focus Apple

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Centric uh and then we would uh follow that
with a deviation into the dry hop and then

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finish with the palm and stone because it
brings some of the wild Funk as well as a

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fair bit of peachy sweetness oh yeah that’s
your order yeah that sounds great we were

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we were debating whether we should do the
Palm Stone first or the second or the dry

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hot second so great to get that recommendation
there and since the fresh hopped is new to

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us we weren’t really sure where to fit yeah
how different it is we’ve had the dry hop

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in the past but we’re excited to try this
this fresh hop tonight so um yeah that sounds

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great and yeah and for those of you you know
we talk a lot about tasting techniques and

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kind of what order to taste things in and
some of you you know you might be scratching

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your head saying like wait a minute I thought
we often tasted dried data Suite right you

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kind of start with the drier things move to
Sweet and that is often but there’s a lot

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of different variables that you have to take
into account when you’re thinking about the

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tasting order one of which is sugar you know
the sweetness level another is the alcohol

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level as well so whether it’s higher in alcohol
lower in alcohol another is you know funkiness

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or fruitiness or things that are going to
kind of like take your palate in One Direction

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and be a little hard maybe to bring it back
from yeah and that’s likely why maybe this

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more sour cider is kind of near the end yeah
um what if all those insiders is a is a very

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important component of figuring out the tasting
order what follows anything that you’re tasting

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I’m kind of trying to appreciate values and
quality and stuff yeah um but thank you for

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that that input Andrew um and while you are
all joining us please feel free to crack open

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any and all of them yeah um and yeah the the
order that we’ll drink them in as Andrew just

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mentioned here is The Farmstead followed by
the fresh hops followed by the palm and stone

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um but and so we’re actually going to take
our second and third one and put them in a

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little ice bucket here just to keep them a
little colder while we’re talking but we will

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what we’ll do is we all will like take the
second one out a little bit before we think

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we’re going to start drinking it right because
you really want and you know Andrew I’m sure

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you can talk to this better than I can but
you know you want your cider to be cold but

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you don’t want it to be ice cold you want
it to be kind of a little bit warmer and it

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probably depends on the varietal um so that
you can get some of those nuances and the

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flavors and the different things kind of going
on there I’m just going to leave these up

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as a reference for a little bit so should
we pour our first cider and yeah talk a little

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let’s get us everyone drinking here um why
thank you you’re welcome and Andrew we would

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love it if you could you know tell everyone
a little bit about this cider that they’re

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going to start drinking first and then maybe
tell us a little bit about your story becoming

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a cider maker and then as we continue to pace
through these we can talk more specifically

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about Finn River and we may be jumping the
gun just in case anybody hasn’t attended one

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of these before uh my name’s Evan I’m a certified
professional this is Suzanne she’s the co-founder

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of the crafty Cafe I’m not the co-founder
who’s the who’s my co-founder I’m sorry you’re

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the you’re the president and CEO and founder
who’s my co-founder right now um yes yeah

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so we’re volleyball cast celebrating and supporting
craft alcohol producers absolutely the lovely

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Finn River um and and many others yeah and
you know for those of you who are SipScout

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members you got your nice little tip Scout
box this month with Finn River inside of it

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so we’re very excited about that um and next
month what you have coming up is going to

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look a little different we’re partnering that’s
right with a really fun company called Master

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the world wines um and our SipScout kind
of sticker will be right on here and she you’ll

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be getting three different wines and some
chocolates next month because we’re doing

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a wine and chocolate tasting for Valentine’s
Day um and it’s also going to be you know

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they’re all craft wines but two of them are
from out of the country so we’ll be kind of

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taking a little tour around the world so we’ll
be traveling and eating chocolate and drinking

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wine for for Valentine’s Day yeah um so yeah
we’re very excited about that but back to

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the yeah program cheers to all of you thanks
for being here cheers um and let’s uh yeah

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let’s kick it over to the now Andrew you are
not just inside of maker you are a co-founder

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right maybe that’s where the co-founder kind
of blurted uh to a certain extent um I came

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I think I showed up at Finn River in year
two uh of what they were doing uh I was their

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uh second cider employee uh and there was
a trio of our Founders and those uh Christy

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and Keith who happen to be married uh and
then uh Eric Jorgensen who lives across the

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valley uh and those three together kind of
hit this Vision up to produce a value-added

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product that would help save the farm and
so there’s a lot that uh speaks to Finn River

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about value-added product or you know agricultural
uh competencies the way that you can pay bills

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um and be a farmer is quite difficult and
so historically speaking you would say things

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like the first generation uh uh Endeavors
to buy the land the second generation Endeavors

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to pay off the land and the third generation
is the first opportunity that you would see

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a profit and so in this day and age uh those
kind of legacies are even more few and far

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between and so if you wanted to uh acquire
agricultural land and then uh talk to your

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investors and be like so in three generations
we’re thinking we’ll be in a position uh to

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have you all paid back and then we’ll be profitable
um that doesn’t sound so good and so we’ve

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been in a process in the last say like 50
years in the United States of redefining the

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finances of small-scale Agriculture you see
some of that in the farm to table action um

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trying to uh uh monetize more directly in
small-scale communities but you also see that

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in the uh Pursuit Of value-added Products
in this case we grow some apples we buy a

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lot of juice in as well and we take and we
modify or process or embellish upon what has

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grown on the land to give you something that
is more than just the raw product so it’s

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not just the carrot out of the ground um but
it’s the carrot pesto that’s packaged in a

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little jar that uh goes into your Bistro um
those kind of Notions and that is really what

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cider hits for us it’s a value-added product
coming from Apple Country and so this value-added

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product we have used to start conversations
on your dinner tables and we have used it

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to reach out and talk about organic agriculture
small-scale agricultural economics and we’ve

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also used it to revitalize a small town out
here in uh Far Western Washington where the

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economy used to be based on Dairy and small-scale
dairy found its demise you know 45 50 years

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ago easy and after that you have a bunch of
Farmland that is functionally turned into

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hay bales and that’s about all the economy
that’s going on here and so as we try and

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stimulate an economy we needed a vibrant value-added
product that was going to bring people in

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and and really put a spark in them and give
them something to talk about with their friends

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and their family give them a reason to come
out give them a reason to come back give them

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a reason to think about us while they’re going
through their daily life in the city uh and

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so yeah um is yeah yeah so speaking of your
vibrant product let’s talk a little bit about

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what we have in our glass right now so Farmstead
is uh basically the taste of chinookum Valley

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and uh we live in chimacum and that’s where
our Cider House is and our Orchard and there

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is uh a group of people that are known as
The Chemical People uh and they used to live

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and still do to some extent live in this area
uh and it’s on their land that we Farm a 50-acre

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plot and in that notion as we talk to neighbors
and learn about where we are and who we are

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and um what we know of the land everybody
has apples trees in their yard and so there’s

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a lot of local fruit that’s not being particularly
used Grandma and Grandpa planted uh apple

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trees to make applesauce or juice you know
75 80 years ago and now that fruit just hits

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the ground and it feeds the deer or it’s a
nuisance to mow over and so we collect and

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talk to all the hobbyists and the old homesteads
through about a 50 60 square miles and we’re

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bringing in all of that fruit that we can
get our hands on and we’re putting it together

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in basically a rustic Taste of the valley
and that’s what Farmstead is meant to be it’s

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unfiltered it clarifies pretty well on its
own just sitting in the bottle but there’s

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a haze to it we don’t do a lot it’s a rather
non-interventionalist cider we’re not uh in

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there manipulating with clarifying agents
um we’re not uh throwing Oak staves in to

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build complexity we’re letting the apples
show through um in this case we’re not even

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pitching yeast we’re letting spontaneous wild
yeast that show up on the apples themselves

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uh do the fermentations for us so this batch
of cider is made in three or four separate

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fermentations each year to kind of depending
on the season but you get apples that come

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in uh early on in in late September and we’ll
press those early fruits we’ll let them ferment

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on the side and as they ferment through that
tank kind of comes to conclusion and it’s

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just chilling on the side but apples are still
coming in and so we’ll press the next round

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fill up the next tank let let that produce
but that’s naturally a different blend of

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apples and so as we put all these things together
I think this year uh we counted 72 different

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named varieties of apples that we know for
sure are in this bottle wow that’s amazing

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so this is really kind of more akin to to
wine making in the sense that you know the

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what’s going in there every year changes and
it’s all different things you know and you’re

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very dependent on and the native yeast too
is a kind of akin to kind of what natural

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wine is doing and that’s you know so it’s
nice because I feel like people sometimes

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expect with with all different beverages you
know things that taste the same every year

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right but like you don’t expect that necessary
from winemakers you know from winemakers you

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know you like this wine maker you like what
he makes and it’s going to be different every

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year but you trust it’s going to be good right
and that’s kind of this approach that each

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vintage almost is kind of and will take efforts
to romanticize each vintage so that there’s

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not good years and bad years there’s just
different years um by all means um and then

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uh it also seems sometimes it’s not so much
dependent on the weather uh or or the factors

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of Earth that decide what shows up in this
vintage but it has to do with uh which Old-Timers

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found it in their hearts to call me and tell
me about their apples uh and who showed up

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in the parking lot with you know a 45 uh bins
in the back of their Minivan and those kind

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of things do impact so when there was a woman
who lives near Poulsbo which is about 30 minutes

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south of here uh and she’s really proud of
her akane apples um and they’re these little

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red eating apples they’re delightful to eat
I never thought much of them for cider she

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showed up and she’s like these apples they
are the best and she’s thought so highly of

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them she was like you’ve got to be able to
use them I’ve got way more than I know what

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to do it and for all of those intents and
purposes it’s one of 72 varieties inside this

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glass but from her perspective the value and
the joy of donating fruit into this particular

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vintage and so now we have akane in here and
it has a little bit of red veinage that comes

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through the Flesh and so we get a little bit
deeper color from that fermentation we’re

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building complexity and we’re building a taste
of the land from people who live here that’s

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amazing it’s almost like a terroir of community
you know rather than like a terroir land you

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know whatever whatever that word would be
the circumstances of the weather are compounded

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by the circumstances of the outpouring or
just like the call to action that I think

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is one of the coolest things that Suzanne
and I talk about when we talk about Finn River

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is is your interest in cultivating this um
I guess just curiosity about the land and

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if you have some apple trees on your on your
land that you’re not really sure what’s going

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on there yeah uh you know you guys are a resource
for people that that you know you may be facilitated

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implicating that Curiosity to begin with and
so as a way to bring that to light and like

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this is people can share that now with people
that they know and are friends like these

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are some of my apples are in this it’s very
cool and that happens and I have to clarify

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that we don’t trade cider for apples that
we don’t deliver cash in the parking lot and

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that we build relationships um uh around stewardship
I need to know that these management practices

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from various neighbors and stuff are meeting
at least with wild harvested untended standards

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uh the rest of our product line is uh fully
sourced with organic fruit and organic inputs

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uh and so we we do that homework um and and
in that I feel like we’re building the rebuilding

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maybe the culture of Agriculture uh we’re
we’re proving that there is a viable Network

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and there’s a reason to be productive on what
land you might have or what trees might be

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in your yard uh it’s it’s not just meant to
be mowed over uh and we can also support we

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we talk to tons of people about their orcharding
techniques inevitably a load of people want

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us to come help them prune their trees every
year in the spring which we do not do but

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for that same notion um we are building the
interconnected web of community and we’re

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doing it by putting some value on some apples
some people donate to that end people do donate

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apples into this and we’re a for-profit company
we are trying to make money make payroll all

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that kind of good stuff uh and so the Farmstead
is also a fundraising bottle and we take 10

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cents per uh bottle sold and we compile that
up each vintage and then we donate that to

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a local non-profit uh I think most recently
it’s gone to jumping mouse which is a program

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here in Port Townsend that uh focuses on uh
therapy through play for kids and in the past

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it’s gone to Dove house which is a women’s
crisis shelter uh and then also to the community

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Wellness project that it’s uh pushing for
nutrition in our local uh Public School District

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and changing the way soda machines and food
menus are put together wonderful and so we’re

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taking in uh what we do take in on donations
um we’re flipping that right back around and

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putting it directly into our community at
places that we think matter so there’s the

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value statement right that’s amazing yeah
hey Andrew how did you um how did you get

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into cider making how this yeah what’s your
story yeah how’d this start for you um so

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out of high school I went to culinary school
um and I got trained up as a Cordon Bleu chef

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and so I started my my life uh uh or my adult
working career uh cooking in fancy places

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in La Beverly Hills that kind of notion and
as I transitioned out of that I went to Humboldt

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State uh realizing that I certainly wasn’t
going to work in kitchens for the rest of

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my life and I didn’t see a great future there
and so I made a little transition um called

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College went to college and studied body fungal
ecology organic chemistry uh and spent you

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know 10 years taking more credits than it
was ever necessary to uh to graduate and um

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promptly took all of that information and
went out to Upstate New York and started picking

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fruit for a living um we’re thrilled I’m sure
as my parents pointed out that it qualified

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me as downwardly mobile and you know they’re
into it so I I was uh living out on the east

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coast in Upstate New York and the people I
was introduced to there uh happen to be some

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00:18:06,820 –> 00:18:12,710
cider makers that are making like Boutique
exceptional top-tier French style cider with

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really specific apples grown in the Finger
Lakes region of New York uh and you know trained

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by French cider makers and super like creme
de La Creme kind of cider uh and I showed

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up and they’re like you want to pick Jerry’s
I picked cherries I picked apricots then I

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picked peaches and then it was apple season
I picked apples uh and then it was like we

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need to squeeze the apples and then we needed
to bottle the apples uh and then we needed

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to sell them uh and then it turned out that
I had some reasonable skills in uh salesmanship

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and taking them into New York City and so
I spent my early years in cider being a grunt

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on a full a full process farm and then you
know empty that bottle into the Pint glass

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the uh uh so I spent my days uh convincing
New York Chefs in Manhattan Brooklyn in the

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Bronx primarily uh that cider was real that
alcohol could be made from from apples uh

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and that there was space on their menu to
offer diversity to their customer base and

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that this was a legitimate cultural phenomenon
that was occurring in the United States this

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was back maybe 2006-ish uh or so maybe a little
2004. and I regularly spent time at a farmer’s

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market articulating the idea that yes there
was alcohol and no I was not just selling

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juice and since then though um I’ve moved
we came back to the West Coast my wife and

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I uh and yeah you can’t build up that original
Cider House all that much and not tell us

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00:19:41,950 –> 00:19:52,700
the name of it sure Eve cidery like uh Adam
and Eve cidering ottoman Ezra um they’re phenomenal

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people they were great mentors my baby was
born on their land uh down by the creek we

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lived in a cabin uh and spent you know the
first two years of her life there uh dipping

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her toes into the creek that runs right through
the yeah helping them plant Orchards and also

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your story is making all of us want to be
you yeah it sounds like a great life story

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00:20:12,910 –> 00:20:19,620
right here so far so good I wrote a letter
to all let’s see at the time there were 14

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cider houses in Washington State uh and so
I wrote a cover letter uh and it was like

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yo I’m looking for a job I’m better than a
grunt and I know things about cider and apples

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and I have management skills uh which is a
whole nother tangent that we don’t need to

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00:20:34,750 –> 00:20:39,990
get into that but I’m a management Theory
geek as well uh and so in thinking about systems

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and management I applied for a job to every
West Coast Cider House my parents live in

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Olympia Washington uh and we were trying to
get back out to the west and Finn river is

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the only place they call me back wow well
I should say dragon’s head over on Vashon

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Island uh they wrote me back but they had
an eight dollar an hour grunt like entry-level

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00:21:00,100 –> 00:21:07,059
job for me uh and this was back you know 2010
eight dollars an hour was legal um in Washington

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it wasn’t it wasn’t terrible uh but it was
not enough to build a family on and that wasn’t

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quite what I was looking for and so we came
out and stayed in a cabin of Christy and Keats

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out here at Finn River uh and I started you
know a week and a half later and we’ve been

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00:21:23,429 –> 00:21:29,230
building our lives here ever since super cool
that sounds great so um and their loss all

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00:21:29,230 –> 00:21:33,000
the other excited houses that didn’t call
you back no they’re kicking themselves now

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00:21:33,000 –> 00:21:38,289
I said uh I’m the vice president of the uh
Northwest cider Association uh volunteering

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on their board uh and have been uh working
my way as an ambassador for the category for

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some time so those folks who may remember
my application initially um they sure see

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a lot of me now uh and I’m helping uh their
boats rise in this tide as well well yeah

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00:21:53,919 –> 00:21:59,059
we know Jana over at the Northwest Center
Association very well yeah she’s amazing did

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00:21:59,059 –> 00:22:03,080
you know her history with Finn River yeah
yeah I think I knew her back when she worked

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00:22:03,080 –> 00:22:07,470
at him actually that’s how I found out about
Finn River I think I met her at cidercon or

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something and that makes great sense with
her and we were like besties immediately and

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then you know I learned about you guys that
way yeah that’s great yep so I want to give

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um our guests a chance to ask some questions
and jump into the conversation and just say

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00:22:21,130 –> 00:22:27,559
hi maybe um if you want to unmute yourselves
and say hello and Jay you’re in Washington

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so I don’t know if you’re familiar with this
area up in River anything like this part of

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you know Washington

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00:22:36,970 –> 00:22:39,110
I have no idea where I am

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you know I I’ve lived here as long as I happen
I haven’t haven’t been able to really explore

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00:22:48,880 –> 00:22:55,980
the way I should um but one thing I have discovered
while I’m out here is that there has been

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a lot of ciders and stuff um and there is
a a cider place just up the street and and

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00:23:03,150 –> 00:23:09,490
they do a little Brew uh in there and it’s
all Heavy Metal based um Mead and stuff like

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00:23:09,490 –> 00:23:16,230
that yeah yeah and so what’s the name what’s
the name of that place um I knew you were

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00:23:16,230 –> 00:23:22,419
gonna ask me that it’s it’s something Nordic
and I can look it up here okay cool Circle

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00:23:22,419 –> 00:23:27,799
back well yeah I was about to mention that
heavy metal place in Denver but I agree that

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if I did someone would ask me what the name
of it was yeah I don’t remember either oh

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yeah I remember that place um yeah well from
what I’ve seen in pictures and from what I

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can tell of where Finn river is and what their
property looks like I would highly suggest

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a road trip there because it’s on one of my
very high it looks just idyllic it looks just

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beautiful and yeah I remember visiting Olympia
National Park when I was young and it was

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just like another planet it’s a really remarkable
part of the part of the country almost stepping

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on a banana slug that was actually the size
of a banana oh yeah wow that’s normal um it’s

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wet out here um I mean it rains a lot to have
slugs that big you need a lot of moisture

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uh and and we get it all the time often in
June uh and so yeah everything is incredibly

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green if you’re lacking green come for a visit
um and just breathe in the deepness and the

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00:24:25,309 –> 00:24:31,670
aroma of green trees and green grass and the
forests abound um it is pretty glorious out

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this way we’ll have to come visit in the summer
because we live in Arizona now which is the

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exact opposite of all of that especially in
the summer if you want some red and some dirt

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and some dry come on this way see Andrew just
out of curiosity while we’re on this topic

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um given that you know the the temperate rainforest
there on the Olympia Peninsula is as wet as

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it is on the global scale by comparison how
does that influence in your like in your experience

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00:25:01,580 –> 00:25:10,361
dealing with the apples that are grown there
to what you saw in New York hmm yeah so we

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still you know being in a uh we’re in a coastal
climate right we’re uh uh surrounded by ocean

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so we’re pretty moderate and yeah we get a
lot of rain but we also have like not too

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hot and not too cold uh so it’s like wet and
cloudy often but we go nine months sometimes

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Without Rain in the summer uh and so it does
end up getting dry but the temperatures don’t

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tend to spike and things along those lines
so and versus like back in New York where

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like every three days you have a thunderstorm
that bothers to actually come across your

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land um whereas versus just seeing the thunderstorms
in the distance but you have rain during the

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summer uh here we’re dry during the summer
uh and we have a really long wet season and

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so sure there’s climactic differences here
in uh uh chimichum we actually parallel um

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uh the Normandy Coast if you look latitude
wise across the way so we’re we’re at this

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00:26:03,590 –> 00:26:09,780
exact same maritime climate where uh the English
you know Somerset and in the south of England

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and places uh where cider is known to come
from as well as in Normandy and Brittany on

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00:26:14,320 –> 00:26:21,059
that Coastline there you have the same maritime
climate the same kind of uh what a cloud cover

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is really all I’m trying to say um that protects
you and mitigates the climate uh and so this

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is good apple country and it’s different than
on the other side of the Cascade Mountains

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00:26:29,289 –> 00:26:35,340
this huge volcanic range um and on the other
side you have Yakima and Wenatchee the Apple

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00:26:35,340 –> 00:26:40,679
capitals of the world and and they’re producing
red delicious and Gold Delicious and uh honey

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00:26:40,679 –> 00:26:46,620
crisps and that’s totally different than where
I live I live in a place that’s full of lichens

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00:26:46,620 –> 00:26:51,680
and little gnarly trees that produce a ton
of apples on their own every year and that’s

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00:26:51,680 –> 00:26:56,809
the way the game plays and so I feel like
I live in Apple Country and across the mountains

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00:26:56,809 –> 00:27:01,549
they grow apples for commercial purposes with
irrigation and a whole lot of sunshine I live

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00:27:01,549 –> 00:27:07,899
where apples want to live um and so uh we
grow small ugly bits of fruit I was going

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00:27:07,899 –> 00:27:12,240
to say Eastern Washington can’t be a place
where they grow without irrigation right like

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00:27:12,240 –> 00:27:17,070
that just doesn’t make sense no not a lot
not that I know unless you’re in a valley

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00:27:17,070 –> 00:27:21,630
you know the Okanagan Valley going up north
uh that stretches up into Canada uh I wouldn’t

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00:27:21,630 –> 00:27:28,440
want to be arrogant to be like that’s not
possible sure but um things like this right

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00:27:28,440 –> 00:27:33,169
um but yeah a lot of irrigation we irrigate
here too we grow some small trees they need

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00:27:33,169 –> 00:27:38,340
some support um we irrigate for probably three
to four months out of the year uh where we’re

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00:27:38,340 –> 00:27:43,820
given you know trees a gallon of water a day
something along that line which is not that

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00:27:43,820 –> 00:27:50,909
huge except that we have six thousand uh trees
and so um there are some impacts the Jamestown

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00:27:50,909 –> 00:27:56,640
Skull Island tribe out here uh on the Olympic
Peninsula they have done quite a bit of climate

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00:27:56,640 –> 00:28:01,440
research modeling and so their scientists
the tribal scientists um have produced some

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00:28:01,440 –> 00:28:06,660
documents that tell us in the next 10 to 15
years we should expect less snow and more

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00:28:06,660 –> 00:28:13,890
rain uh and so warmer Winters with larger
amounts of precipitation um Coming during

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00:28:13,890 –> 00:28:20,150
those Winters and so we should expect wetter
uh uh conditions and then longer dry times

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00:28:20,150 –> 00:28:24,800
and we’re going to get more of this concept
of a lot of water all at once and then a dry

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period And so we’ve been looking at ways in
our Orchard to mitigate that how can we track

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00:28:29,919 –> 00:28:35,010
water in the land how can we trap water in
the root Zone climate resilience for us uh

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00:28:35,010 –> 00:28:40,510
has to do with understanding what it is that
we need to support these trees when we have

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00:28:40,510 –> 00:28:45,120
a bunch of fluctuation and what we need is
stability and so we’re designing stability

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00:28:45,120 –> 00:28:51,640
into the orchard out here that’s big time
yeah that’s super important and you know as

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00:28:51,640 –> 00:28:57,240
Mother Nature continues to change I feel like
everywhere across the globe uh farmers are

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00:28:57,240 –> 00:29:02,310
going to need to continue to understand how
they can adjust and adapt because yeah you

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00:29:02,310 –> 00:29:09,070
know if it snows then the water melts and
goes into the groundwater much more slowly

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00:29:09,070 –> 00:29:14,100
if it rains it goes into the rivers and goes
out to the ocean um and that’s just something

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00:29:14,100 –> 00:29:20,279
that you can’t really adjust for unless you
have infrastructure in place and are prepared

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00:29:20,279 –> 00:29:25,760
for it by having cistern or the water collection
parts of your topography that you can really

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00:29:25,760 –> 00:29:31,570
hold it there we looked into a pond for example
that would allow us to irrigate um we use

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00:29:31,570 –> 00:29:38,299
something like 5 000 gallons uh per hour to
irrigate our Orchard like the water volumes

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00:29:38,299 –> 00:29:44,190
for irrigation are enormous and we’re in a
wet place and we have uh water rights to the

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00:29:44,190 –> 00:29:48,309
creek that runs through uh and we’re one of
a few it’s really highly regulated kind of

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00:29:48,309 –> 00:29:52,940
space and we have access to this amount of
water we talked about putting in a pond and

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00:29:52,940 –> 00:29:57,519
we’re thinking like how big would the pond
need to be to impact our irrigation schedule

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00:29:57,519 –> 00:30:02,049
uh and we came up with like three to four
million gallons is the size of the pond we

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00:30:02,049 –> 00:30:08,440
would need that would cover like 15 days of
irrigation needs in the middle of summer right

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00:30:08,440 –> 00:30:13,100
so we’re not putting in the pond we talked
about um what it might look like to put in

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00:30:13,100 –> 00:30:17,169
a wetland or kind of a diversion from the
creek to try and help with some natural habitat

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00:30:17,169 –> 00:30:23,370
and let the Earth hold a little bit more water
here a little slower um but in in those kinds

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00:30:23,370 –> 00:30:27,060
of Concepts about you know how do we deal
with the heat Dome I don’t know if you all

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00:30:27,060 –> 00:30:32,399
remember the heat Dome of two years ago now
it wasn’t this summer but last summer uh it

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00:30:32,399 –> 00:30:36,630
destroyed raspberries and black currants uh
across the state it destroyed cherries the

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00:30:36,630 –> 00:30:42,250
Washington State Cherry Harvest was just totally
trashed and that was because we had uh in

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00:30:42,250 –> 00:30:49,540
the middle of July something like 109 degrees
uh Eastern Washington was up into the 120s

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00:30:49,540 –> 00:30:54,419
and that’s like Moses Lake area where a lot
of apples and cherries are grown and so a

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00:30:54,419 –> 00:30:59,450
lot of Agriculture got hit by that heat Dome
our soil dried out like crazy so we take that

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00:30:59,450 –> 00:31:04,210
and we’re like yo we’ve got to put wood chips
on the ground we need to plant bigger trees

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00:31:04,210 –> 00:31:08,840
that Harvest their own water from Deep Roots
and we’ve got to get off irrigation because

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00:31:08,840 –> 00:31:14,620
fundamentally uh we need stronger more robust
uh trees that are going to fend for themselves

355
00:31:14,620 –> 00:31:19,480
and we need some shade and so we planted an
orchard in the midst of our small Orchard

356
00:31:19,480 –> 00:31:24,250
we planted a big Orchard and so in 30 years
there’s going to be huge trees like that you’ve

357
00:31:24,250 –> 00:31:28,080
got to hug your arms around kind of trees
those trees are going to be the apple trees

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00:31:28,080 –> 00:31:33,639
of Finn River and underneath them you’re going
to have a big Shady Paradise that can withstand

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00:31:33,639 –> 00:31:38,210
the heat Dome and conserve some water moisture
levels in the ground and support a variety

360
00:31:38,210 –> 00:31:45,160
of other Farm operations really digging into
the agriculture here but like you know life

361
00:31:45,160 –> 00:31:49,840
life feels real out here we’re very much connected
to the Earth uh and and how we choose to play

362
00:31:49,840 –> 00:31:55,260
the next 20 years seems quite Paramount it’s
interesting you’re just listening to him talk

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00:31:55,260 –> 00:31:59,760
about this a little bit is making me think
of that documentary no yeah it was that documentary

364
00:31:59,760 –> 00:32:03,860
movie the biggest little farm biggest little
farm biggest little have you guys seen this

365
00:32:03,860 –> 00:32:08,590
documentary biggest little farm it’s it’s
really amazing it’s this couple who basically

366
00:32:08,590 –> 00:32:12,929
decides they want to go off the grid kind
of and but the way they want to do that is

367
00:32:12,929 –> 00:32:18,559
to go build their own self-enclosed sustainable
kind of farm where like everything is the

368
00:32:18,559 –> 00:32:22,910
whole ecosystem is supporting each other like
the bee population is supporting this population

369
00:32:22,910 –> 00:32:26,380
and right like the right things are killing
the right things and eating the right things

370
00:32:26,380 –> 00:32:32,490
and then birthing the right like and watching
them do this on even like a small-ish scale

371
00:32:32,490 –> 00:32:37,730
you know is really quite fascinating to just
understand how ecosystems work and the things

372
00:32:37,730 –> 00:32:44,761
that we think are bad and critters and annoying
like are so vital to other parts of the role

373
00:32:44,761 –> 00:32:50,299
like yeah like it’s really it’s I highly recommend
it biggest little farm it’s pretty pretty

374
00:32:50,299 –> 00:32:55,640
captivating yeah I mean like the beaver Wars
that we fight out here um let me introduce

375
00:32:55,640 –> 00:33:02,649
a second cider and then I’ll talk about beavers
I just took a nip of this and I was like I

376
00:33:02,649 –> 00:33:08,240
was like whoa this is exciting because we’ve
had your dry hopped before um but this is

377
00:33:08,240 –> 00:33:12,779
a newer cider is it is it not the Fresh Off
yeah the fresh shop is just significantly

378
00:33:12,779 –> 00:33:18,529
smaller batched I think it’s cooler cooler
uh but we don’t we can’t make it year round

379
00:33:18,529 –> 00:33:23,389
because we only have you can only make it
with fresh Hops and if we made it enough for

380
00:33:23,389 –> 00:33:27,070
an entire Year’s worth of sales towards the
end of that year you would be drinking old

381
00:33:27,070 –> 00:33:32,520
cider and that means oxidized Hops and it’s
just not what we want so we make it in a pretty

382
00:33:32,520 –> 00:33:37,850
small batch uh depends on what the Growers
bring in we have one row of hops in our Orchard

383
00:33:37,850 –> 00:33:44,100
out there uh instead of trees we planted Hot
Vines and then in the uh you know search for

384
00:33:44,100 –> 00:33:51,270
fresh hops there’s a fella up in Sequim which
is you know 25 miles west of us and uh he

385
00:33:51,270 –> 00:33:56,529
put in six different varieties of hops on
a whim because that’s what he’s into kind

386
00:33:56,529 –> 00:33:59,919
of thing and then he called me one day being
like hey I got all these hops do you guys

387
00:33:59,919 –> 00:34:03,730
do things with hops right do you want any
uh and that was the beginning of a relationship

388
00:34:03,730 –> 00:34:08,220
his name’s Carl he generally drives boats
from here to Hawaii and then apparently has

389
00:34:08,220 –> 00:34:14,200
this hop Farm um which I’ve been to and it’s
great and I don’t understand all the whys

390
00:34:14,200 –> 00:34:20,669
but nonetheless um I buy hops from him and
in this case it’s a organic Comet and Cascade

391
00:34:20,669 –> 00:34:25,650
and Chinook I believe are the three varieties
that you taste in there we grew the Cascades

392
00:34:25,650 –> 00:34:31,669
he grew the Chinook and the comet uh and we’re
talking hours from Harvest to in a tank soaking

393
00:34:31,669 –> 00:34:36,990
in cider um as soon as they get picked off
and they’re you know they get brought in in

394
00:34:36,990 –> 00:34:44,290
a tub uh we’re dumping them straight down
um and that is a a direct infusion like of

395
00:34:44,290 –> 00:34:50,089
the land into the cider Bam Bam Bam and so
fresh hops they’re amazing and alive and it’s

396
00:34:50,089 –> 00:34:53,970
herbaceous and more potent we put a lot more
hops into the fresh hop than we do into the

397
00:34:53,970 –> 00:34:59,010
dry hop mostly because we buy all these Hops
and we’re like what are we going to do we’re

398
00:34:59,010 –> 00:35:04,250
going to make one really dope ass um batch
of cider and we pile it all in uh and we try

399
00:35:04,250 –> 00:35:07,850
and make something that is just knock your
socks off so if you’re in the Hops this is

400
00:35:07,850 –> 00:35:13,900
a bone dry cider with a whole big pile of
local Hops uh dumped in they sit for about

401
00:35:13,900 –> 00:35:20,930
a day a day and a half and then we’re pulling
those hops out um

402
00:35:20,930 –> 00:35:24,140
when I have a quiet moment I’ll try and load
a picture into the chat which I believe I

403
00:35:24,140 –> 00:35:28,680
can do of what our tanks look like when they’re
full of hops but it’s a kind of a mesmerizing

404
00:35:28,680 –> 00:35:34,880
field of green um and it’s beautiful yeah
that sounds great this smells like a mesmerizing

405
00:35:34,880 –> 00:35:41,290
sea of green like it even has like a little
bit of greenish Hue to it yeah pushing it

406
00:35:41,290 –> 00:35:46,710
right yeah it’s really and it’s always so
it’s fun I I really love hop ciders there’s

407
00:35:46,710 –> 00:35:50,400
to be fair there’s a lot of bad hopsiders
out there so if you’ve tried hop cider I feel

408
00:35:50,400 –> 00:35:55,109
like it’s a very it’s an art a little bit
like how to bring hops to life in cider and

409
00:35:55,109 –> 00:35:59,880
and sometimes it just goes goes down and this
is beautiful and your dry hop cider is beautiful

410
00:35:59,880 –> 00:36:04,510
as well but I like hop cider specifically
because I do think it’s a way to get beer

411
00:36:04,510 –> 00:36:08,300
drinkers who have just like for whatever reason
written off-site or completely and said they’re

412
00:36:08,300 –> 00:36:13,400
not cider people to at least be curious enough
to try and then once they get in like that’s

413
00:36:13,400 –> 00:36:18,690
where you can start to go from there you know
and I really enjoy that um that’s also how

414
00:36:18,690 –> 00:36:24,540
I talk about barely gin you know get barrel-aged
Gin is the way to get whiskey drinkers into

415
00:36:24,540 –> 00:36:30,440
gin kind of thing you know those kind of transition
certain distance what do they call those Gateway

416
00:36:30,440 –> 00:36:36,260
gateways gateway drugs that’s what they told
us in math yeah all those things you didn’t

417
00:36:36,260 –> 00:36:42,339
know about until you took the Dare program
yes yeah exactly I uh uh in Ballard there’s

418
00:36:42,339 –> 00:36:48,441
a company called big gin um maybe they’re
called captive Spirits Distillery uh but uh

419
00:36:48,441 –> 00:36:53,510
but they make a product called Big gin uh
and their head distiller Alex uh has come

420
00:36:53,510 –> 00:36:57,790
over to visit a few times and I just picked
up a few of those barrels and I have uh some

421
00:36:57,790 –> 00:37:03,450
peat smoked barrels like which you would make
Scotch with I would imagine um but he was

422
00:37:03,450 –> 00:37:08,360
making peat smoked gin or Barrel aged peat
gin and then he handed me those barrels and

423
00:37:08,360 –> 00:37:12,830
I have two of those and we’re now filling
them with cranberry juice and Perry uh and

424
00:37:12,830 –> 00:37:19,460
so we’re gonna have some peat smoked Barrel
aged scotch-like cranberry gin kind of uh

425
00:37:19,460 –> 00:37:25,859
and that is a collaboration we won’t see until
the fall as it comes through but a bit by

426
00:37:25,859 –> 00:37:30,830
bit working into that gin because I do think
it’s a Gateway and people like Oh I like that

427
00:37:30,830 –> 00:37:35,650
Jen I like I like that Mezcal thing what’d
you do um and so the crossover collaborations

428
00:37:35,650 –> 00:37:41,810
also lead to a lot of that kind of Gateway
engagement for sure Andrew how do we get on

429
00:37:41,810 –> 00:37:49,021
your your tasters list I’m like how do I get
a bottle of that

430
00:37:49,021 –> 00:37:53,400
that’s the fun thing about Fin River too is
they have a very wide portfolio um and honestly

431
00:37:53,400 –> 00:37:57,850
I I would say a lot of times when I find winemakers
in other places that make kind of everything

432
00:37:57,850 –> 00:38:02,090
under the sun I’m honestly not normally a
fan of that because I feel like they don’t

433
00:38:02,090 –> 00:38:06,450
make everything under the sun very well um
and I kind of like it when people focus in

434
00:38:06,450 –> 00:38:10,849
on like I’m good at this but Finn river is
an exception to that rule because every cider

435
00:38:10,849 –> 00:38:15,381
of theirs I’ve tasted is delicious and they
do a really a lot of these classic traditional

436
00:38:15,381 –> 00:38:20,800
ciders but then they do these fruit infused
ciders and Botanical ciders and so they have

437
00:38:20,800 –> 00:38:25,060
different like categories of ciders and they’re
all just uniquely different just to give you

438
00:38:25,060 –> 00:38:30,630
an idea and correct me if I’m wrong Andrew
year in year out it’s somewhere in the neighborhood

439
00:38:30,630 –> 00:38:41,040
of 50 distinct at least that are for sale
yeah okay um I think we have 25 maybe 30 standard

440
00:38:41,040 –> 00:38:47,000
skus and then there’s one offs that kind of
populate in there for sure people keep bringing

441
00:38:47,000 –> 00:38:52,079
me these weird fruits uh and you know like
what do you do when someone walks in with

442
00:38:52,079 –> 00:39:00,890
like kiwis and golden currants and uh uh or
the Quince or yeah I mean or the funky apples

443
00:39:00,890 –> 00:39:06,010
that show up and this one fella who lives
over by Anderson Lake he shows up and he has

444
00:39:06,010 –> 00:39:11,830
egremont russet apples and like I don’t know
why anyone would plant these trees or particularly

445
00:39:11,830 –> 00:39:15,920
grow these apples they’re a little bit mealy
they’re kind of dry and Cakey and he shows

446
00:39:15,920 –> 00:39:19,490
up and he’s got like a truckload of them like
he’s been intentionally growing these things

447
00:39:19,490 –> 00:39:25,200
for years and he’s like I think you’re gonna
like these yes but what have you been doing

448
00:39:25,200 –> 00:39:30,440
before this like why um and and what in the
world like he doesn’t even make cider he’s

449
00:39:30,440 –> 00:39:35,240
not he doesn’t even drink alcohol and so he’s
growing these obscure apples for his from

450
00:39:35,240 –> 00:39:41,250
what I can tell No Good Reason um until he
met me fat squirrels yeah very happy squirrels

451
00:39:41,250 –> 00:39:46,329
like a pig farm or something yeah right and
I mean so so then I get those apples and we’re

452
00:39:46,329 –> 00:39:49,180
like well what are we gonna do we’re gonna
make something special we’re gonna make something

453
00:39:49,180 –> 00:39:53,260
that uh no one’s ever had before and we’re
never gonna make it again because he passed

454
00:39:53,260 –> 00:39:57,470
and the people who bought his land cut his
trees down um and so in terms of the number

455
00:39:57,470 –> 00:40:02,600
of skus there are Joys and there are tragedies
and we make things because the opportunity

456
00:40:02,600 –> 00:40:07,620
shows up I would like to think that at the
price point that we’re at with or organic

457
00:40:07,620 –> 00:40:13,470
standards salmon safe certified um the values
commentary that Finn River brings to the table

458
00:40:13,470 –> 00:40:18,430
um I get it we are one of the most expensive
ciders on the market by all means and one

459
00:40:18,430 –> 00:40:22,390
of the reasons that we’re most expensive is
because we deal honestly with our neighbors

460
00:40:22,390 –> 00:40:27,670
um and then on another level uh we put creativity
and Excellence into what we make and so I

461
00:40:27,670 –> 00:40:30,930
would hope that we’re not going to put we
might put out something that’s weird and might

462
00:40:30,930 –> 00:40:36,859
not be the the right taste for you but it’s
the right taste for somebody and even if it

463
00:40:36,859 –> 00:40:44,820
tastes bad it’s it’s well made bad we put
our diligence into it and so hopefully you

464
00:40:44,820 –> 00:40:50,210
might not like it but this is made exactly
how it should have been made sure and we actually

465
00:40:50,210 –> 00:40:54,950
do talk about that quite a bit with in these
sessions and in other classes that we do about

466
00:40:54,950 –> 00:41:00,970
being able to differentiate between is this
a well-made product versus do I like it is

467
00:41:00,970 –> 00:41:04,670
really what you want to Aspire to you know
like you might take a sip of something and

468
00:41:04,670 –> 00:41:08,859
be like whoa that’s not for me at all but
that doesn’t mean you have to say that’s a

469
00:41:08,859 –> 00:41:13,140
horrible wine like that’s a very different
statement right like instead of you always

470
00:41:13,140 –> 00:41:17,359
feel like you know it might not be for you
but someone does like it out there palettes

471
00:41:17,359 –> 00:41:22,099
pallets are wide in variable and you know
and while Andrew says they’re one of the most

472
00:41:22,099 –> 00:41:26,800
expensive ciders out there I actually do find
this to be very reasonable um price point

473
00:41:26,800 –> 00:41:32,440
for some of the other ciders that you know
are out there The Cider is a little bit more

474
00:41:32,440 –> 00:41:37,849
expensive yeah for sure and you know the thing
I do love also about Finn river is that they

475
00:41:37,849 –> 00:41:42,630
ship all over the country um so this isn’t
you know and we try as best we can with Sip

476
00:41:42,630 –> 00:41:47,319
Scout we try to only bring you things that
you would never maybe find out about otherwise

477
00:41:47,319 –> 00:41:51,940
you know on your own but you can get more
of it when we’re done here because otherwise

478
00:41:51,940 –> 00:41:54,950
it’s such a tease to let you taste it once
and you fall in love with it and you can’t

479
00:41:54,950 –> 00:41:59,390
get anymore just kidding um but yeah but they
ship all over and so I really encourage you

480
00:41:59,390 –> 00:42:03,650
to go to Finn River’s website and I’ll throw
it in the chat in a second and just look around

481
00:42:03,650 –> 00:42:07,369
in their shop you just choose the state you
live in look around the shop and see because

482
00:42:07,369 –> 00:42:11,280
there’s some fun flavors there’s some fun
things that you won’t see anywhere else that

483
00:42:11,280 –> 00:42:17,920
you just might be like wow that’s super interesting
um also I feel like a fun gift as well I got

484
00:42:17,920 –> 00:42:23,309
mad stories um we’re a verbose company we
tell stories with our hops we tell stories

485
00:42:23,309 –> 00:42:30,200
with uh uh the variety of ciders that we put
to and I don’t mean to rush it um but should

486
00:42:30,200 –> 00:42:35,270
I talk about sours and talk about them next
or should we banter about other stories I

487
00:42:35,270 –> 00:42:40,030
got I got I got other stories I just want
to know where feeling on timelines and like

488
00:42:40,030 –> 00:42:44,890
that kind of thing yeah you maybe give us
one more story and then we can kind of jump

489
00:42:44,890 –> 00:42:49,099
into the third and maybe the story can be
uh adjacent to what I was going to suggest

490
00:42:49,099 –> 00:42:54,579
as you bring sours into this mix because um
I recall the last time we were with you and

491
00:42:54,579 –> 00:43:00,240
talking ciders um you had a pretty interesting
kind of delineation mentally perhaps for yourself

492
00:43:00,240 –> 00:43:05,690
or perhaps to share with consumers about like
the approach of looking at The Farmstead uh

493
00:43:05,690 –> 00:43:10,370
this is apples and this is quintessential
apples and you know we’re really trying to

494
00:43:10,370 –> 00:43:16,271
show off apples and and this sense of place
as much as we can as a closely related to

495
00:43:16,271 –> 00:43:22,460
the concept of Star Wars you like to have
that and then the other half of your portfolio

496
00:43:22,460 –> 00:43:26,559
because I feel like there’s probably far more
of a Botanical and the sour and the Hop the

497
00:43:26,559 –> 00:43:32,730
ones that have the adjuncts as being something
that is perhaps your uh blank canvas to play

498
00:43:32,730 –> 00:43:40,810
around with and oh yeah uh and kind of talk
about uh the the approach to those two sides

499
00:43:40,810 –> 00:43:46,310
from historically where the delineation in
our culture was which is beer drinkers and

500
00:43:46,310 –> 00:43:51,740
wine drinkers and how you bring both of them
into the fold at Finn River by having something

501
00:43:51,740 –> 00:43:59,090
that is true to the the primary ingredient
form of apples apples in in The Farmstead

502
00:43:59,090 –> 00:44:05,100
and the others in that uh you know so there’s
a story that like kind of shaped on the spot

503
00:44:05,100 –> 00:44:10,800
there I got this I love that I love that concept
and so I’d love to know more about like the

504
00:44:10,800 –> 00:44:14,990
origin of that for you if there was a story
like traditional contemporary a little bit

505
00:44:14,990 –> 00:44:20,610
Yeah Yeah primarily speaking it’s all about
dogs and cookies um unless those are actually

506
00:44:20,610 –> 00:44:29,210
just Ritz crackers and peanut butter that
are happening yeah I’m talking about you

507
00:44:29,210 –> 00:44:36,660
um you’re after my own heart the uh I think
the gameplay that you’re getting out there

508
00:44:36,660 –> 00:44:43,730
Evan um there are many old school traditions
for cider making uh they’re primarily French

509
00:44:43,730 –> 00:44:49,541
and English and and Spanish and there’s some
German but what it comes down to is on some

510
00:44:49,541 –> 00:44:56,010
level like cider is a little bit Punk a little
bit punk rock uh it’s a little bit DIY uh

511
00:44:56,010 –> 00:45:03,030
it has the ability to not take the same infrastructure
that making beer does uh although I’m a reasonably

512
00:45:03,030 –> 00:45:10,160
Avid home beer maker uh but also uh we don’t
have the pretense that wine brings to the

513
00:45:10,160 –> 00:45:16,200
table and we haven’t as a cider culture for
300 years cider has been a beverage of of

514
00:45:16,200 –> 00:45:23,950
the Campesino of the farm worker uh cider
is uh the the beverage that keeps your children

515
00:45:23,950 –> 00:45:29,059
alive because it doesn’t have uh doesn’t bring
dysentery um cider has a lot of history of

516
00:45:29,059 –> 00:45:33,430
being a community beverage and so yeah we’re
building we’re standing on those kinds of

517
00:45:33,430 –> 00:45:40,450
shoulders for sure and at the same time there’s
an idea wanting to elevate I want to make

518
00:45:40,450 –> 00:45:47,540
a 750 ml bottle of cider that pours like wine
that that blows sommeliers off their chairs

519
00:45:47,540 –> 00:45:54,730
uh I want to show you the complexity of notes
of leather and spice and the the flavor of

520
00:45:54,730 –> 00:46:01,740
the clay-based soils that I grow in here in
chimacum and at the same time I also want

521
00:46:01,740 –> 00:46:08,030
to engage and be this is hard for me to say
out loud at least a little bit connected to

522
00:46:08,030 –> 00:46:16,280
like tailgate parties um like I for one I’m
a soccer player and for for two uh I’m in

523
00:46:16,280 –> 00:46:22,359
a premium organic cider uh and and we we don’t
hit that tailgate Market exactly but bear

524
00:46:22,359 –> 00:46:27,559
with me on the stretch there um I want people
to drink cider and I want it to be delicious

525
00:46:27,559 –> 00:46:32,540
uh I don’t want to like exclude folks from
the category because I’m making something

526
00:46:32,540 –> 00:46:40,690
so austere uh or so pretentious that that
is unreachable and so we have that freedom

527
00:46:40,690 –> 00:46:45,580
Insider because the category is somewhat undefined
in the United States uh we don’t have the

528
00:46:45,580 –> 00:46:51,670
rules like beer has where all these Style
Guidelines um that make a Bach or a half or

529
00:46:51,670 –> 00:46:58,770
a brown ale we don’t have um I know I feel
like that’s kind of debated within the cider

530
00:46:58,770 –> 00:47:02,520
industry like there’s a lot of people who
are really pushing hard for like defining

531
00:47:02,520 –> 00:47:07,430
what dry means defining what you know and
defining like modern versus traditional do

532
00:47:07,430 –> 00:47:15,070
you think that’s important like what’s your
thought I I think that uh having clear definitions

533
00:47:15,070 –> 00:47:20,470
for Consumer communication feels really important
like people need to understand what the product

534
00:47:20,470 –> 00:47:27,099
themselves but uh I think pushing for those
definitions um are also primarily Notions

535
00:47:27,099 –> 00:47:35,040
of ego within the maker Community uh you know
like whether it’s a Bach or a half or a Pilsner

536
00:47:35,040 –> 00:47:39,220
doesn’t really replace the idea about whether
it’s good or whether I like it right and those

537
00:47:39,220 –> 00:47:42,619
are different questions like does it hit the
Style Guidelines and does the the does the

538
00:47:42,619 –> 00:47:47,829
person enjoy it and so I think yes we want
some definition we could use some clarity

539
00:47:47,829 –> 00:47:53,320
so that we can all compare each other to ourselves
um kind of thing and that will probably lead

540
00:47:53,320 –> 00:47:59,700
to more connoisseurship and uh an elevation
of the categories yeah that seems beneficial

541
00:47:59,700 –> 00:48:04,359
but on another level like it’s also just important
to ignore the the categories and make sure

542
00:48:04,359 –> 00:48:08,360
that you’re hitting the the Yum Factor the
deliciousness Factor because people need to

543
00:48:08,360 –> 00:48:15,760
enjoy it and so if the cat I wouldn’t take
category definition at the expense of consumer

544
00:48:15,760 –> 00:48:21,619
enjoyment um and so those are they’re they’re
not they’re they’re related but but I want

545
00:48:21,619 –> 00:48:28,569
I want both uh uh fundamentally yeah equally
like you know in in the south of France um

546
00:48:28,569 –> 00:48:33,980
or sorry in the in the north of France um
if you don’t have the right 10 apples you

547
00:48:33,980 –> 00:48:39,730
can’t call it Normandy style cider appellation
of control right uh we don’t have that going

548
00:48:39,730 –> 00:48:43,559
on here in the United States and we probably
won’t I don’t hear a lot of people pushing

549
00:48:43,559 –> 00:48:49,049
for that we also don’t really talk about terroir
all that often Insider uh because very few

550
00:48:49,049 –> 00:48:53,040
people are growing the same varieties of apples
in different places so you’re not tasting

551
00:48:53,040 –> 00:48:58,600
the Earth you’re tasting a different blend
uh and so there’s some really uh fun projects

552
00:48:58,600 –> 00:49:04,290
going on between cideries that are all growing
Kingston blacks or all growing golden russets

553
00:49:04,290 –> 00:49:09,599
and uh you know we put out three different
Kingston blacks last year uh one from Wenatchee

554
00:49:09,599 –> 00:49:14,440
one from the Olympic Peninsula and one from
the Northwest side of the Olympic Peninsula

555
00:49:14,440 –> 00:49:19,170
uh and so we had three different regions all
growing the same apples and we let them each

556
00:49:19,170 –> 00:49:23,650
ferment individually and tried to showcase
the same Apple from three different places

557
00:49:23,650 –> 00:49:29,680
the fermentations tasted totally different
but why was that the Earth was that the native

558
00:49:29,680 –> 00:49:33,980
yeast was that the fact that they came in
two different two months apart and they fermented

559
00:49:33,980 –> 00:49:38,660
differently on our side like there’s a number
of variables to control from low data points

560
00:49:38,660 –> 00:49:44,920
but interest and Intrigue and so in that kind
of space I don’t know that I think it’s important

561
00:49:44,920 –> 00:49:51,390
but I think we’re going there anyways um and
and cider makers take their their craft seriously

562
00:49:51,390 –> 00:49:55,270
and they want parameters and they want to
know that they’re hitting a mark and then

563
00:49:55,270 –> 00:50:00,210
the marketers the people who sell the cider
and and speak to the customers they also need

564
00:50:00,210 –> 00:50:04,290
parameters they need to be able to talk about
dry and sweet in a way that customers trust

565
00:50:04,290 –> 00:50:08,770
and believe they need to be able to create
that trust relationship so again that’s the

566
00:50:08,770 –> 00:50:13,119
most harmful one I think is the dry and sweet
that’s the one I feel I really wish they would

567
00:50:13,119 –> 00:50:17,480
regulate kind of because you know you put
dry Cider on something and it’s not dry at

568
00:50:17,480 –> 00:50:22,230
all and then people are like totally turned
off you know and so it really from a marketing

569
00:50:22,230 –> 00:50:26,380
perspective I feel like that’s one of the
most harmful ones that’s not regulated yeah

570
00:50:26,380 –> 00:50:31,860
that’s challenging yeah Jay to the silliness
that I’m spewing at the moment um the idea

571
00:50:31,860 –> 00:50:36,880
of tasting the Earth is that terroir is a
com a term that talks about tasting uh of

572
00:50:36,880 –> 00:50:41,690
the place and generally in grapes that refers
to tasting of like the qualities of the soil

573
00:50:41,690 –> 00:50:47,599
that the grapes were grown in um versus tasting
the blend meaning the blend of apples that

574
00:50:47,599 –> 00:50:51,210
have come together and so are you just tasting
the fruit and they’re a little bit there’s

575
00:50:51,210 –> 00:50:55,040
differences between the physical thing that
you’re holding in your hand or are you tasting

576
00:50:55,040 –> 00:50:59,280
the differences between the earth that the
roots were touching and that’s what I was

577
00:50:59,280 –> 00:51:04,270
trying to allude to in that particular statement
are you tasting the Earth or are you tasting

578
00:51:04,270 –> 00:51:09,930
the apples and the difference in the fruit
terroir is not supposed to reference necessarily

579
00:51:09,930 –> 00:51:15,520
the difference in growing conditions like
you irrigated your apples and I didn’t irrigate

580
00:51:15,520 –> 00:51:21,190
mine you’ll be able to taste that in the cider
is that the definition of the word terroir

581
00:51:21,190 –> 00:51:28,240
in the wine concept no and so it’s a little
yeah it takes some metaphors to get through

582
00:51:28,240 –> 00:51:33,170
all of that I think although to be fair I
guess I would like if you’re irrigating your

583
00:51:33,170 –> 00:51:38,859
roots aren’t having to go as deep and work
as hard so they’re likely not getting as much

584
00:51:38,859 –> 00:51:43,930
like pulling in as much of the minerality
or the the things from the soil they might

585
00:51:43,930 –> 00:51:47,480
be only going through like yeah three feet
of soil because they’re growing up where the

586
00:51:47,480 –> 00:51:51,780
water comes from the irrigation as opposed
to 10 feet of soil and seeing three different

587
00:51:51,780 –> 00:51:57,330
stratas that have a totally different content
of minerals and nutrients and and that’s I

588
00:51:57,330 –> 00:52:02,589
think why with old world they talk about terroir
so much more because they’re irrigating as

589
00:52:02,589 –> 00:52:06,849
much and here in the United States even in
the wine world I would argue we don’t really

590
00:52:06,849 –> 00:52:11,050
talk about Terror all that much we use the
word sure you know but we don’t talk about

591
00:52:11,050 –> 00:52:15,160
it in the way that like they do in Europe
you know and I think that’s your irrigation

592
00:52:15,160 –> 00:52:20,180
related it’s adjacent but it’s not because
the vast majority like not only is irrigation

593
00:52:20,180 –> 00:52:27,670
not common it’s actually illegal forbidden
a lot of places at least for wine um and maybe

594
00:52:27,670 –> 00:52:33,320
in maybe inside your aocs too you know I mean
maybe you know they got them in France um

595
00:52:33,320 –> 00:52:38,320
and you see a little bit of that pushing in
England um I I doubt you’ll see it in the

596
00:52:38,320 –> 00:52:42,740
United States looking at what the American
Insider Association is bringing to the table

597
00:52:42,740 –> 00:52:48,619
they’re looking for a big intense solution
uh does you know I we work to Brand Pacific

598
00:52:48,619 –> 00:52:54,420
Northwest cider uh relative to Michigan or
Midwestern cider up there in the north the

599
00:52:54,420 –> 00:53:00,780
other Apple versus Finger Lakes cider and
uh the northeastern world uh and at best we

600
00:53:00,780 –> 00:53:06,150
have consensus that um we all have a bunch
of dessert fruit and they grow a lot of Macintosh

601
00:53:06,150 –> 00:53:09,970
over here and there’s different apples that
go into different places uh they make more

602
00:53:09,970 –> 00:53:15,670
ice wine the further north you get that all
makes sense um but stylistic choices are different

603
00:53:15,670 –> 00:53:19,240
than whether you’re tasting the Earth we’re
not all growing the same fruit and so the

604
00:53:19,240 –> 00:53:25,080
comparison of place-based compare or like
like if we were all growing uh Cabernet you

605
00:53:25,080 –> 00:53:29,609
would compare the cabernets across and I’m
gonna say it and I was gonna try not to say

606
00:53:29,609 –> 00:53:35,940
it but you know comparing apples and oranges
um there’s just different stuff here uh and

607
00:53:35,940 –> 00:53:40,030
so if you’re not comparing across the board
then the comparison isn’t doesn’t feel like

608
00:53:40,030 –> 00:53:43,880
you’re actually talking about the Earth but
you are talking about the stylistic choices

609
00:53:43,880 –> 00:53:48,589
of the fermenter or the farm or something
along those lines which is similar but also

610
00:53:48,589 –> 00:53:54,280
not the same getting a little snooty and I
try not to get into the snooty too much and

611
00:53:54,280 –> 00:53:59,390
it’s hard too because like geographically
speaking the the places where grapes are I’m

612
00:53:59,390 –> 00:54:06,740
sorry where apples are being grown in Europe
oranges yeah oranges in the UK and in France

613
00:54:06,740 –> 00:54:13,010
and in Germany collectively all of those areas
combined are like half of the entire United

614
00:54:13,010 –> 00:54:17,589
States and we’re growing them all over the
United States and so unless we were growing

615
00:54:17,589 –> 00:54:24,150
the same apples uh that France was growing
in Normandy and Brittany in Washington and

616
00:54:24,150 –> 00:54:28,109
that was the only place you were growing those
apples in the United States it doesn’t really

617
00:54:28,109 –> 00:54:34,720
make sense to draw comparisons to you know
European examples of those apples and the

618
00:54:34,720 –> 00:54:40,180
same would go for you know growing the UK
apples in the Finger Lakes and you know the

619
00:54:40,180 –> 00:54:45,359
Spanish apples in Michigan it doesn’t really
make sense to draw comparisons across the

620
00:54:45,359 –> 00:54:50,900
thing which doesn’t make sense compare French
uh ciders to Spanish ciders yeah yeah for

621
00:54:50,900 –> 00:54:56,150
sure um I know he took us on a tangent there
for a second sorry for the interruption but

622
00:54:56,150 –> 00:54:59,690
while we’re while we’re waking our way back
from the tangent maybe we can pause for a

623
00:54:59,690 –> 00:55:06,980
second to introduce our third cider here yeah
uh so home and stone uh poem fruit is the

624
00:55:06,980 –> 00:55:14,220
uh Botanical term to refer to apples and pears
primarily uh poems is a Botanical term uh

625
00:55:14,220 –> 00:55:19,980
and then stone fruit uh referencing the peaches
the nectarines the apricots the plums uh and

626
00:55:19,980 –> 00:55:26,180
this one in in particular uh focuses on apricots
uh because that’s what came in from the grower

627
00:55:26,180 –> 00:55:31,460
that I work with and I tend to buy all of
their ugly fruit and sometimes their ugly

628
00:55:31,460 –> 00:55:36,839
fruit is cherries sometimes it’s peaches sometimes
it’s apricots but I give them a viable market

629
00:55:36,839 –> 00:55:43,450
for the fruit that is uh not gonna make it
to Market or so so I give them a viable Financial

630
00:55:43,450 –> 00:55:50,260
alternative to what won’t make it to Market
um and and that secondary uh economic cycle

631
00:55:50,260 –> 00:55:55,270
is like like the heart and soul of Twin River
sourcing and apples it’s not that we’re buying

632
00:55:55,270 –> 00:56:00,630
waste fruit but we’re we’re giving a market
and a viable pathway for all the things that

633
00:56:00,630 –> 00:56:06,470
the consumers won’t buy in the grocery store
uh and to me I call that ugly fruit um but

634
00:56:06,470 –> 00:56:11,589
uh to others you know it’s not that it’s bruised
and beaten and terrible these are things that

635
00:56:11,589 –> 00:56:16,030
have very slight blemishes that the American
Consumer won’t pick up in the grocery store

636
00:56:16,030 –> 00:56:20,160
because fundamentally when you go to buy a
tomato you don’t want to pick up a tomato

637
00:56:20,160 –> 00:56:23,652
that already has a bruise or a wound or a
little bit of mold growing on the top you’re

638
00:56:23,652 –> 00:56:29,380
going to pick the perfect tomato so what happens
to all those other cast aside Tomatoes right

639
00:56:29,380 –> 00:56:35,559
um yeah they’re in your house yet

640
00:56:35,559 –> 00:56:40,750
and so um you know I I often look for the
the discount produce bin by all means and

641
00:56:40,750 –> 00:56:45,180
I also do that at Finn River um and so I talk
to the farmers ahead of time and I get field

642
00:56:45,180 –> 00:56:52,220
run cherries uh in this case I get um apricots
that uh are picked and and they process and

643
00:56:52,220 –> 00:56:57,580
freeze them for me uh and so everything that
it doesn’t go to their Fresh Markets uh gets

644
00:56:57,580 –> 00:57:01,130
dropped into a bucket and Frozen and then
I get to buy it and I have it year round and

645
00:57:01,130 –> 00:57:06,460
so I can make things at different times the
poem and Stone also has like a fermentation

646
00:57:06,460 –> 00:57:12,150
history that is worth a little discussion
um we uh I could just tell you when I took

647
00:57:12,150 –> 00:57:17,140
a well when I took up my first sip of it you
were you were talking so I whispered under

648
00:57:17,140 –> 00:57:25,510
my breath to Evan like oh man it’s it’s really
like this is super fun I mean all three of

649
00:57:25,510 –> 00:57:29,130
them were I haven’t we haven’t talked about
what we thought about all of them we can talk

650
00:57:29,130 –> 00:57:33,180
about that but the color on this is just beautiful
and they always say you eat with your eyes

651
00:57:33,180 –> 00:57:40,329
first and the texture is a little bit like
richer and like heavier feeling and it just

652
00:57:40,329 –> 00:57:44,250
it’s really well balanced like and I’m I’m
I like sour things but I don’t like them to

653
00:57:44,250 –> 00:57:48,280
be overly sour and so this is really just
beautifully balanced remarkable so when we’re

654
00:57:48,280 –> 00:57:53,700
talking about Sour we’re not talking about
tart or acid levels particularly we’re talking

655
00:57:53,700 –> 00:57:59,109
about uh alternative fermentation organisms
and so while the other two ciders we’ve tried

656
00:57:59,109 –> 00:58:07,359
tonight we ferment with a pretty normal fermentation
yeast a saccharomyces blend and uh we we get

657
00:58:07,359 –> 00:58:12,650
wine we get alcohol as they consume the sugar
and all of that’s normal normal for sours

658
00:58:12,650 –> 00:58:19,069
uh there’s a beer tradition in which you let
a variety of bacteria dominates your fermentation

659
00:58:19,069 –> 00:58:23,660
and multiple organisms can make alcohol yeast
happens to be the best at it and the most

660
00:58:23,660 –> 00:58:29,400
consistent so when you enter into the sour
world you enter into the wildness of uncontrolled

661
00:58:29,400 –> 00:58:37,660
bacteria real fermentation and it’s glorious
it’s not kombucha just pointing that up um

662
00:58:37,660 –> 00:58:45,900
in the uh idea here so we pitch pitch meaning
I add to the cider uh organisms that are traditionally

663
00:58:45,900 –> 00:58:52,079
considered flaws and and dangerous to have
in your wine or in your beer and we do it

664
00:58:52,079 –> 00:58:58,099
on purpose and so it’s controlled Mayhem it’s
um it’s playing with things that are terrible

665
00:58:58,099 –> 00:59:03,339
in order to make them so terrible that they’re
good again uh and my wife told me to stop

666
00:59:03,339 –> 00:59:08,840
making the the Alpha and Omega Christian thing
um and I’m gonna do it anyways but it’s like

667
00:59:08,840 –> 00:59:12,490
these things are so bad they’re good they
come around again they are the alpha and the

668
00:59:12,490 –> 00:59:16,609
Omega which is a quote and that’s where it
gets into the thing that she tells me not

669
00:59:16,609 –> 00:59:21,190
to bring up because it’s not that funny in
things along those lines um but like so bad

670
00:59:21,190 –> 00:59:26,040
it’s good doesn’t give the same notion as
like complete circle you start off with something

671
00:59:26,040 –> 00:59:31,740
like pretendomyces which is an organism that
destroys red wine uh uh and makes it unpalatable

672
00:59:31,740 –> 00:59:36,579
and you take it as a threshold level you ferment
it you get it over an older and older and

673
00:59:36,579 –> 00:59:40,710
stronger and stronger and then all of a sudden
it comes back into a world where people are

674
00:59:40,710 –> 00:59:48,030
like ooh that’s pretty good um that’s that’s
so nasty it’s great uh kind of notion um so

675
00:59:48,030 –> 00:59:52,609
that’s the realm of sour beers um they’re
so flawed that they’re delightful uh interesting

676
00:59:52,609 –> 00:59:59,270
because Evan as a trained sommelier he he
has historically had an issue with sour beers

677
00:59:59,270 –> 01:00:05,660
because he’s like Brett beers natural wine
and a lot of sour ciders and sour beers yeah

678
01:00:05,660 –> 01:00:10,890
he’s like I was taught that this was a flaw
kind of but in another context you know yeah

679
01:00:10,890 –> 01:00:16,640
but now I like the smell of Stilton in my
Africa yeah I mean genetic predispositions

680
01:00:16,640 –> 01:00:22,430
we all taste things differently as well um
and so what is a flaw and what is that threshold

681
01:00:22,430 –> 01:00:27,810
for one is not necessarily going to be a threshold
for another uh and so there’s definitely variation

682
01:00:27,810 –> 01:00:33,980
to play with but in the notion here of cider
so we are presenting flaw organisms into the

683
01:00:33,980 –> 01:00:39,270
cider to get a fermentation they don’t do
a lot relative to flawed red wine or sour

684
01:00:39,270 –> 01:00:44,680
beers uh are sugars that we present in the
fruit are really easy to ferment they don’t

685
01:00:44,680 –> 01:00:49,869
cause the crazy crazy flavors that you get
in sour beers and they don’t cause the same

686
01:00:49,869 –> 01:00:54,381
detriment that you see in Barrel aged old
red wine and so we’re not burning down the

687
01:00:54,381 –> 01:01:01,780
cidery because we have an infestation of retinoises
I I buy the cultures in little vials and I

688
01:01:01,780 –> 01:01:07,020
add them intentionally and we don’t worry
about sanitizing afterwards it’s it’s never

689
01:01:07,020 –> 01:01:13,569
been an issue there’s not enough here to really
engage in the same notion so we have some

690
01:01:13,569 –> 01:01:19,270
leeway in the world of sour or alternative
fermentation organisms that wine and beer

691
01:01:19,270 –> 01:01:25,430
don’t have um and so I play with that we push
it and we push the limits I try not to experiment

692
01:01:25,430 –> 01:01:30,710
on my customers uh we we experiment in-house
and we try and present Excellence to the world

693
01:01:30,710 –> 01:01:35,819
uh and so the weird funky ferments where retino
mycies or pediococcus this other bacteria

694
01:01:35,819 –> 01:01:40,910
have really come into full effect we’ve decided
to control them and figure out what makes

695
01:01:40,910 –> 01:01:45,150
them taste good as opposed to showing you
all the weirdo nasty things that we can ferment

696
01:01:45,150 –> 01:01:50,539
in the corner um and so Pullman stone is something
that we’ve returned to over and over again

697
01:01:50,539 –> 01:01:55,720
we start off with kind of a wild and funky
fermentation with a lot of organisms all growing

698
01:01:55,720 –> 01:02:01,830
together to make alcohol for us and then right
at the end we dump a bunch of fresh stone

699
01:02:01,830 –> 01:02:06,710
fruit on top and so by adding it at the end
it’s not a co-ferment but it’s a finishing

700
01:02:06,710 –> 01:02:11,660
choice so this has been finished with apricots
and some nectarines and I think five gallons

701
01:02:11,660 –> 01:02:19,020
of plums it gives it so much color for just
a finishing ferments it’s really it’s a beautiful

702
01:02:19,020 –> 01:02:25,069
sidebar for those of you following along what
he said burning down The Cider House that’s

703
01:02:25,069 –> 01:02:29,960
not an exaggeration in the wine world because
well he’s talking about like mixing the right

704
01:02:29,960 –> 01:02:34,299
amount of this you know starter yeast or this
starter yeast and then pitching it into the

705
01:02:34,299 –> 01:02:41,200
fermentation once the yeast is in a location
it goes on living there in the air naturally

706
01:02:41,200 –> 01:02:47,549
in perpetuity you literally would have to
burn down the winery or Cider House or Brewery

707
01:02:47,549 –> 01:02:52,170
if you didn’t want a chance of britannomize
he’s getting in your sperminations from that

708
01:02:52,170 –> 01:02:57,670
point forward it’s like if you got glitter
somewhere in your house yeah just burn it

709
01:02:57,670 –> 01:03:05,830
down yeah yeah and actually in Danica are
you talking you’re gonna mute if you are oh

710
01:03:05,830 –> 01:03:10,990
no she was talking so well um um they actually
what was I gonna say about not about Glitter

711
01:03:10,990 –> 01:03:16,490
not about Glitter oh no in in breweries where
they really you know make a lot of sour beers

712
01:03:16,490 –> 01:03:21,589
but they also make other beers they actually
have almost like clean room standards for

713
01:03:21,589 –> 01:03:25,650
the fermentation of where their sour beers
are fermenting where it’s like literally like

714
01:03:25,650 –> 01:03:30,319
the barrels stay over there not like no same
equipment is used or nothing is cross-contained

715
01:03:30,319 –> 01:03:35,260
completely like different building miles apart
yeah yeah there was one in Asheville and your

716
01:03:35,260 –> 01:03:39,220
shoes off before you step inside this Brew
if you’ve just come from there there’s a brewery

717
01:03:39,220 –> 01:03:45,200
what’s the big Brewery in Asheville North
Carolina um they had the funkatorium was their

718
01:03:45,200 –> 01:03:51,579
sour beer bar and their sour beer and then
they had their stand they just sold to a big

719
01:03:51,579 –> 01:03:56,130
big brand recently um that’s why it’s left
my brain I can’t think of it yeah that’s why

720
01:03:56,130 –> 01:04:00,710
we don’t know what it’s called anymore but
yeah but they had a whole different like Brewery

721
01:04:00,710 –> 01:04:06,990
essentially for their sour beers and then
another one so it is yeah like glitter that’s

722
01:04:06,990 –> 01:04:13,339
remarkable that it’s that the apricots and
the plums and the tangerines were not co-fermented

723
01:04:13,339 –> 01:04:19,670
yeah how long are they kind of in contact
like how long is this finishing ferment nectarines

724
01:04:19,670 –> 01:04:27,109
not tangerines talking you know tangerines
and and nectarines yeah it’s different um

725
01:04:27,109 –> 01:04:34,059
the thing about apples and oranges and the
Citrus component yeah and the only the only

726
01:04:34,059 –> 01:04:39,339
reason that I don’t bring Citrus for example
uh up into fin River uh has to do with regional

727
01:04:39,339 –> 01:04:44,640
sourcing it doesn’t grow near here so there
are a lot of pretty rad ciders that are being

728
01:04:44,640 –> 01:04:49,299
produced um that have things like lemon peel
and grapefruit and oranges and tangerines

729
01:04:49,299 –> 01:04:54,490
um it’s just far away from me and so those
things don’t grow here but I’m quite intrigued

730
01:04:54,490 –> 01:04:59,099
and I’ve had a number of conversations being
like well what about all of these like um

731
01:04:59,099 –> 01:05:04,930
frosted oranges that came out of uh Central
California um there was a bad Frost three

732
01:05:04,930 –> 01:05:09,839
years ago that just basically dropped a ton
of fruit but the juices inside was still full

733
01:05:09,839 –> 01:05:14,819
of sugar but the fruit wasn’t going to be
uh visibly acceptable anyhow I don’t mean

734
01:05:14,819 –> 01:05:22,859
that as like a poke so much as like yeah tangerines
I daydream about it gotta come down to Arizona

735
01:05:22,859 –> 01:05:28,990
get your citrus down the uh uh contact time
I guess it varies a little bit we let it Sizzle

736
01:05:28,990 –> 01:05:34,890
and and we let so the sugar that you’re tasting
for example um is sugar that we added back

737
01:05:34,890 –> 01:05:41,029
uh and and so we’re we’re back sweetening
with Organic Cane’s sugar uh so what you’re

738
01:05:41,029 –> 01:05:45,630
tasting is not peach or nectarine or or Plum
sugar we’re letting that ferment through so

739
01:05:45,630 –> 01:05:50,020
that takes about a week week and a half uh
and we’re dumping whole chunks of fruit in

740
01:05:50,020 –> 01:05:54,339
there it’s been frozen so all the Skins are
all the cells have kind of like broken uh

741
01:05:54,339 –> 01:05:59,520
so it floats and it makes this kind of like
cheese flotilla of soft fruit pudding paste

742
01:05:59,520 –> 01:06:06,900
um and you can you can touch it and like you
know smear it around and kind of just um um

743
01:06:06,900 –> 01:06:13,520
and that fruit floats in this cap on top and
we don’t stir it we don’t deck it back down

744
01:06:13,520 –> 01:06:18,319
we just let it ride uh and and so once it’s
on top we’ll pull all the cider out from underneath

745
01:06:18,319 –> 01:06:23,589
it and that little bit of sizzling fermentation
uh from the last little bit of sugar kind

746
01:06:23,589 –> 01:06:29,460
of feeds the wild organisms right at the end
and we get just that much more Funk added

747
01:06:29,460 –> 01:06:35,279
to it if you’ll notice I mean I notice because
I’m sitting here talking uh a whole lot but

748
01:06:35,279 –> 01:06:41,200
uh the viscosity of the mucus in my mouth
is different now than what it was when I was

749
01:06:41,200 –> 01:06:48,930
drinking the dry hot and so I’m like right
that action is real um and that is coming

750
01:06:48,930 –> 01:06:57,059
from uh polysaccharide chains that are created
yeah that’s true um that are created by uh

751
01:06:57,059 –> 01:07:02,609
pediococcus and lactobacillus and these are
things that change the body and the texture

752
01:07:02,609 –> 01:07:07,640
of wine beer and cider and so we’re using
these organisms to create a totally different

753
01:07:07,640 –> 01:07:13,360
experience uh and so I’m feeling that I get
it we’re talking about the body the finish

754
01:07:13,360 –> 01:07:19,059
the the structure of the wine um yeah it’s
real and we’re impacting that so if you go

755
01:07:19,059 –> 01:07:24,720
back to the dry hop um and or the the fresh
hopped and and you drink that it’s crisp it’s

756
01:07:24,720 –> 01:07:29,160
edgy and it’s thin um and then you go into
the Pullman Stone and you’re like oh that’s

757
01:07:29,160 –> 01:07:33,520
fruity and it’s round oh yeah and it leaves
a lot going on here in your throat here on

758
01:07:33,520 –> 01:07:40,650
the top of your mouth um I I think anyways
that I get to play um I’m crafting that experience

759
01:07:40,650 –> 01:07:45,569
for you I’m showing you a different way for
your mouth and your body to experience a glass

760
01:07:45,569 –> 01:07:50,470
of cider in this case it’s got apricots in
it and in this case it has hops in it uh and

761
01:07:50,470 –> 01:07:56,750
we’re gonna dance back and forth um and you’re
going to be able to experience the variety

762
01:07:56,750 –> 01:08:01,529
that we can put on the table for you with
a fair amount of intention like I’m not totally

763
01:08:01,529 –> 01:08:06,450
making this stuff up I do pray you know to
the agricultural cider Gods from time to time

764
01:08:06,450 –> 01:08:10,700
to make sure that I’m in line with what they
want from me but we’re trying to show you

765
01:08:10,700 –> 01:08:15,500
things and we’re trying to take you on a trip
uh and it’s sometimes it’s about what’s in

766
01:08:15,500 –> 01:08:19,109
the bottle and sometimes it’s about what’s
on the farm and sometimes it’s about social

767
01:08:19,109 –> 01:08:23,213
justice in the world um because we’re just
humans moving through this space trying to

768
01:08:23,213 –> 01:08:28,520
figure out what it is that we’re supposed
to be doing cool yeah these are really quite

769
01:08:28,520 –> 01:08:32,480
quite lovely but not that I’m surprised we’ve
every time we have been River ciders they’re

770
01:08:32,480 –> 01:08:36,859
really great I’d love to hear Jay Danica Griff
I’d love to hear you know what you guys are

771
01:08:36,859 –> 01:08:41,650
thinking of these ciders and if you have a
favorite or if you have any questions or anything

772
01:08:41,650 –> 01:08:49,980
like that I think it’s really funny that you
hesitantly mentioned the tailgate situation

773
01:08:49,980 –> 01:08:56,790
because I’m only drinking one of them tonight
because the Chiefs are playing on Saturday

774
01:08:56,790 –> 01:09:03,089
and I’m gonna make everybody that we’re gonna
watch with try the other two that we have

775
01:09:03,089 –> 01:09:10,569
while we watch the game so good job spread
the fin River audience I guess with that one

776
01:09:10,569 –> 01:09:16,350
yeah which one did you drink tonight Danica
um this was the fresh hopped which I love

777
01:09:16,350 –> 01:09:21,810
it actually it’s so good I haven’t I’m not
excited or something that I’m still learning

778
01:09:21,810 –> 01:09:27,960
I don’t feel like we have a ton of cider around
here I’m in Kansas City and there’s not a

779
01:09:27,960 –> 01:09:32,920
lot of like cideries and stuff around here
so I don’t feel like it’s something we see

780
01:09:32,920 –> 01:09:37,730
as often but a lot of breweries will have
like a cider or something which I don’t feel

781
01:09:37,730 –> 01:09:44,429
like is the same so um this is really good
I’m a big fan of this one I am a big fan of

782
01:09:44,429 –> 01:09:49,080
sour beers usually too so that was fun to
hear you talk about that and I’m excited to

783
01:09:49,080 –> 01:09:54,870
try the sour one um because I’m a big usually
a big fan of sour beers because I like to

784
01:09:54,870 –> 01:09:59,350
taste like the fruits and stuff like that
so and not only the fruit but like this one’s

785
01:09:59,350 –> 01:10:04,120
so complex Sanic I think you guys were gonna
really like it it’s it does have like when

786
01:10:04,120 –> 01:10:09,280
I said Stilton not far off and there’s also
like the cheesiness toasted like hazelnut

787
01:10:09,280 –> 01:10:15,030
character going on to it that I don’t know
Andrew do associate that nuttiness with the

788
01:10:15,030 –> 01:10:22,000
actual pit or do you put the pit in there
it’s frozen fruit I think right yeah I would

789
01:10:22,000 –> 01:10:27,949
hope that most of the pits have been taken
out um I uh I actually really like apricot

790
01:10:27,949 –> 01:10:33,170
pits um if you crack them open there’s the
bitter almond that’s inside which is the flavor

791
01:10:33,170 –> 01:10:40,230
source of almond extract and marzipan um interesting
yeah side note uh there was this one year

792
01:10:40,230 –> 01:10:45,380
when I got a 5 gallon on bucket full of only
apricot pits from tonne maker Hill Farms and

793
01:10:45,380 –> 01:10:50,550
I sat there and cracked them all and I had
a giant pile of bitter almonds on my table

794
01:10:50,550 –> 01:10:55,409
uh and I was just like breathing them in and
eating them and it was a dare with my daughter

795
01:10:55,409 –> 01:11:04,020
to eat them because they’re kind of like bitter
and uncomfortable um maybe I mean yeah sure

796
01:11:04,020 –> 01:11:11,440
slash slash amazing um and and you know the
Earth giving you a great gift um so yeah we’re

797
01:11:11,440 –> 01:11:17,429
keeping the pits out for sure I think that
that nuttiness for what it’s worth um is it

798
01:11:17,429 –> 01:11:24,370
it’s not acid aldehyde um but it’s the buttered
popcorn flavor uh maybe it is acetyl acetyl

799
01:11:24,370 –> 01:11:31,679
acetyl aldehyde um that you get from from
malolactic fermentation yeah yeah and you

800
01:11:31,679 –> 01:11:37,510
get as a beer flaw like it’s a very common
home Brewer mistake um you get you get that

801
01:11:37,510 –> 01:11:43,380
nutty popcorn flavor thing diacetyl there
you go um thank you so what what I think we’re

802
01:11:43,380 –> 01:11:47,930
talking about is diacetyl that’s been produced
by lactobacillus organisms and if you get

803
01:11:47,930 –> 01:11:52,889
a threshold it’s really quite delightful and
it adds depth and it gives you some nuttiness

804
01:11:52,889 –> 01:11:57,540
and some and and some kind of deeper biscuity
notes um and then if you go overboard with

805
01:11:57,540 –> 01:12:02,550
it when you you breathe out it tastes like
popcorn kernels and if you get even worse

806
01:12:02,550 –> 01:12:07,040
and stronger than that you’re you’re wondering
if you’re drinking something like butter beer

807
01:12:07,040 –> 01:12:12,350
um and some some Harry Potter concoction kind
of thing uh and so there’s a balancing of

808
01:12:12,350 –> 01:12:17,110
flaws and I guess that speaks to it is that
like yeah um if you tasted that nuttiness

809
01:12:17,110 –> 01:12:25,110
I think uh in a cleaner cider you would identify
it immediately as a rookie mistake or a contamination

810
01:12:25,110 –> 01:12:30,570
and instead what we have is a balancing of
flaws to make you know these things are so

811
01:12:30,570 –> 01:12:35,520
bad and now they taste so good um or you can
threshold with where you get a little you

812
01:12:35,520 –> 01:12:41,040
don’t taste any potato mices in this I definitely
put it in but the organism did not produce

813
01:12:41,040 –> 01:12:47,780
the three components that it makes that taste
like horse sweat and leather uh and polyvinyl

814
01:12:47,780 –> 01:12:51,510
right those are the notes that you’re going
to get from a britannomyces contamination

815
01:12:51,510 –> 01:12:56,080
and I wanted that and then they don’t show
up and it’s hard to make them show up in cider

816
01:12:56,080 –> 01:13:01,969
in a consistent way so it doesn’t taste like
Band-Aids just so you know I was trying and

817
01:13:01,969 –> 01:13:03,239
it didn’t work out um

818
01:13:03,239 –> 01:13:10,739
it is interesting the more like I come to
understand and learn about fermentation in

819
01:13:10,739 –> 01:13:18,090
general or pretendomizes you know lactobacillus
any kind of fermentation the inoculation that

820
01:13:18,090 –> 01:13:22,500
you might put in there and even the stuff
that you can recognize in the environment

821
01:13:22,500 –> 01:13:29,810
around there have less than I I think it was
proposed there’s like less than a 70 likelihood

822
01:13:29,810 –> 01:13:34,610
that that same one that you inoculate with
is going to be the one that completes the

823
01:13:34,610 –> 01:13:39,540
fermentation and you’re just like I’m hoping
I’m rolling the dice and this is what I’m

824
01:13:39,540 –> 01:13:45,469
putting in there it’s nice that they’re not
too expensive um you could you can throw cultures

825
01:13:45,469 –> 01:13:50,570
upon cultures the neat thing is when you start
throwing weird farm implements into the cider

826
01:13:50,570 –> 01:13:54,550
uh trying to see what what you’ll get so like
you know the old shovel that you found out

827
01:13:54,550 –> 01:13:59,040
there you cut the handle off and you split
the the wooden handle with a hatchet and then

828
01:13:59,040 –> 01:14:04,660
you can throw those as staves uh into your
cider see if that would be different if you

829
01:14:04,660 –> 01:14:09,360
think about uh the old family paddle uh in
the Norwegian beer making tradition where

830
01:14:09,360 –> 01:14:15,100
the the family paddle sat up uh above and
you would use it to stir and inoculate I think

831
01:14:15,100 –> 01:14:18,810
that’s some history of some sour beer kind
of fermentations right that’s where the yeast

832
01:14:18,810 –> 01:14:24,090
were that’s better than like yanking your
beard and then washing your hands in the liquid

833
01:14:24,090 –> 01:14:32,320
um we’ll we’ll keep it tidy uh we did make
a field of hay Cider at one point where um

834
01:14:32,320 –> 01:14:39,110
the farmer that leases some land from us had
a fresh cut bale of hay that came in early

835
01:14:39,110 –> 01:14:45,139
spring um because of a weird rotation of crops
and so this was before flower heads had formed

836
01:14:45,139 –> 01:14:51,060
and so I had a gluten-free bale of hay and
I took that veil of hay and we shoved it into

837
01:14:51,060 –> 01:14:57,980
some cider uh and and we gave people a taste
of like mowing lawn like it was it was a beautiful

838
01:14:57,980 –> 01:15:05,620
bit of like grassy wildness on some good cider
uh and it tasted like you had just sliced

839
01:15:05,620 –> 01:15:10,219
uh like you had just run your lawnmower over
like the freshest cut grass uh and it was

840
01:15:10,219 –> 01:15:15,030
subtle and it was an out breath and it was
delightful um but this idea of introducing

841
01:15:15,030 –> 01:15:20,930
a variety of flavors to the game cider also
has a lot of flexibility because we don’t

842
01:15:20,930 –> 01:15:25,670
have those rules like they do in France because
we don’t have standards um we get to make

843
01:15:25,670 –> 01:15:30,500
our own standards and it’s up to me to convince
you all that uh Finn River has standards and

844
01:15:30,500 –> 01:15:36,340
you can trust us you can trust me to not do
terrible things to you um and and that’s the

845
01:15:36,340 –> 01:15:41,880
the the gameplay in the world I think is that
uh you know excellent is coming in somewhere

846
01:15:41,880 –> 01:15:48,320
um yeah field of hay is available it’s delightful
Artisan hey I know there’s some Artisan kindling

847
01:15:48,320 –> 01:15:56,100
around um but the Artisan hay or the craft
bale of hay those are real things Artisan

848
01:15:56,100 –> 01:16:01,420
hey I love it I love it hey Griff did you
have anything you wanted to chime in on what

849
01:16:01,420 –> 01:16:08,560
you’re thinking over there I I I beg to disagree
on on this a little bit because actually I

850
01:16:08,560 –> 01:16:17,250
smell leather in here oh when I mean there’s
some leather in here uh and so it’s it’s really

851
01:16:17,250 –> 01:16:22,560
nice it you know it’s with the old the whole
thing is is is really nice and and here in

852
01:16:22,560 –> 01:16:29,170
Georgia uh I’m in Ellijay Georgia and Ellijay
is in Gilmer County and Gilmer County uh considers

853
01:16:29,170 –> 01:16:35,930
itself the Apple capital of Georgia so we
actually grow a lot of apples up here there

854
01:16:35,930 –> 01:16:42,450
are Apple houses all over the the county and
uh there are now some a couple of cideries

855
01:16:42,450 –> 01:16:52,420
that are making cider so um it’s it’s growing
up here in terms of of cider and uh and uh

856
01:16:52,420 –> 01:16:58,520
I I was real interested when I got the the
deciders as well because The Farmstead is

857
01:16:58,520 –> 01:17:04,210
interesting because I actually our street
address is on Farmstead road so we actually

858
01:17:04,210 –> 01:17:10,260
uh have a Farmstead connection with The Farmstead
cider yeah that’s great sounds like that bottle

859
01:17:10,260 –> 01:17:14,420
should turn into a little a little bun vase
or something to keep around the house there

860
01:17:14,420 –> 01:17:19,510
you go

861
01:17:19,510 –> 01:17:24,991
these these all have been these these have
been great um I I really like the the uh the

862
01:17:24,991 –> 01:17:31,570
the pump and stone I really do yeah I think
that there are numerous ways to present peaches

863
01:17:31,570 –> 01:17:36,630
and apricots and stone fruit uh into the world
and oftentimes you see it in like Bourbon

864
01:17:36,630 –> 01:17:44,330
Barrel Peach uh uh or uh things that are like
sweet peach tea and they go uh for my taste

865
01:17:44,330 –> 01:17:49,262
anyways a fair bit overboard and just like
blowing you out of the water uh I want you

866
01:17:49,262 –> 01:17:53,610
to be able to drink a full Pint and then I
want you to be able to go back to the bar

867
01:17:53,610 –> 01:17:58,710
and get something else and have a really lovely
evening um I don’t want to blow you out I

868
01:17:58,710 –> 01:18:03,010
don’t want to fill your belly I don’t want
to ruin your existence kind of thing um and

869
01:18:03,010 –> 01:18:08,560
so this uh notion of a subtle peach or a subtle
apricot in this case like yeah there’s a lot

870
01:18:08,560 –> 01:18:14,330
going on here but I’d like to think at least
in in my world um this isn’t overwhelming

871
01:18:14,330 –> 01:18:20,060
and it’s not gonna to be the the end of your
evening it’s going to be a delightful moment

872
01:18:20,060 –> 01:18:24,330
that you can move through and that you could
throw some cheese at or you could throw some

873
01:18:24,330 –> 01:18:28,760
baby back ribs at like it kind of it depends
on what mood you’re in and where you’re at

874
01:18:28,760 –> 01:18:32,920
in terms of like making a crowd pleaser or
making something like austere and far away

875
01:18:32,920 –> 01:18:38,710
and difficult to get at um yeah we have an
issue here in in North Georgia with there

876
01:18:38,710 –> 01:18:47,600
are a lot of wineries here as well now and
uh most of them are on the way sweet side

877
01:18:47,600 –> 01:18:55,210
and so they they become real overpowering
and and uh a lot of the wines um and I haven’t

878
01:18:55,210 –> 01:19:01,810
I haven’t tried any of the ciders here locally
yet but uh I I would guess that they may also

879
01:19:01,810 –> 01:19:06,960
be if they’re if they’ve done anything with
fruit or whatever they’re probably going to

880
01:19:06,960 –> 01:19:16,230
be a little bit overbearing but uh you know
to the point um sugar cells uh and as many

881
01:19:16,230 –> 01:19:21,389
people come to the table and say hey I like
a dry a dry wine or a dry cider and then they’re

882
01:19:21,389 –> 01:19:25,940
going to walk away with like one of the sweeter
things on our lineup um it’s hard to get away

883
01:19:25,940 –> 01:19:31,219
from and so finding your local operation that
is going to make something that hits that

884
01:19:31,219 –> 01:19:37,989
Mark it’s truly amazing when you get there
um there’s a a number of local breweries up

885
01:19:37,989 –> 01:19:42,489
here near Port Townsend and you know from
my perspective it takes a fair bit of beer

886
01:19:42,489 –> 01:19:48,750
to make a nice cider and so as I go out and
I hunt for my beers I’m looking for a specific

887
01:19:48,750 –> 01:19:52,870
something I’m looking for something that’s
dry and crisp and edgy and I want to be able

888
01:19:52,870 –> 01:19:57,750
to have that but I acknowledge that what I
want isn’t necessarily what’s going to make

889
01:19:57,750 –> 01:20:01,740
a ton of money for the brewery and so you’ve
got small businesses balanced on consumer

890
01:20:01,740 –> 01:20:07,330
preference and yeah sometimes it’s hard to
find something that feels dry uh or is dry

891
01:20:07,330 –> 01:20:15,120
and complex at the same time I did a quick
search uh Brick River Cider Company uh and

892
01:20:15,120 –> 01:20:20,610
is there in Kansas City there’s also one called
the summer Somerset wine and cider bar um

893
01:20:20,610 –> 01:20:26,540
just as a throwback here this is not in Georgia
um but the somerset wine and cider bars Somerset

894
01:20:26,540 –> 01:20:32,840
is a region of England that is known for their
country Bittersweet ciders uh highfalutin

895
01:20:32,840 –> 01:20:36,690
uh and so if you’re looking there in Kansas
City being like where are The Cider houses

896
01:20:36,690 –> 01:20:42,300
uh it’s true only three popped up when I went
looking at the American cider Association

897
01:20:42,300 –> 01:20:49,600
uh uh map finder kind of notion I would gravitate
towards the one that says Somerset Somerset

898
01:20:49,600 –> 01:20:56,311
is an incredible region of Bittersweet tannic
crazy Apple people uh in England and they’re

899
01:20:56,311 –> 01:20:59,730
making something amazing there and so if that’s
what their focus is I bet you’re going to

900
01:20:59,730 –> 01:21:04,850
find something that is less Angry Orchard
and a lot more craft showing up in a place

901
01:21:04,850 –> 01:21:09,300
like that I do not have that kind of support
for Georgia yeah

902
01:21:09,300 –> 01:21:16,710
if I would say you know for the Y one stream
and later industry too I feel like as alcohol

903
01:21:16,710 –> 01:21:21,810
Industries start off in regions and start
to like get their steam sugar covers up a

904
01:21:21,810 –> 01:21:28,300
lot of flaws sugar makes things palatable
that otherwise wouldn’t be so while you know

905
01:21:28,300 –> 01:21:32,530
wine makers and cider makers are figuring
out like what grapes grow here what do I do

906
01:21:32,530 –> 01:21:36,540
with these grapes what are like I think that’s
common that things kind of start out a little

907
01:21:36,540 –> 01:21:40,960
bit sweeter and then as they get their groove
and they figure out like don’t plant Those

908
01:21:40,960 –> 01:21:46,360
Grapes here don’t work with that here they
start to like find their you know their spot

909
01:21:46,360 –> 01:21:53,389
and yeah and I was gonna say and culturally
uh and this is from a little bit of time that

910
01:21:53,389 –> 01:21:59,790
I spent there my my grandparents uh retired
to Florida as many grandparents do um but

911
01:21:59,790 –> 01:22:05,510
more more recently I spent the last 10 years
doing Wine Tours in Napa and Sonoma and met

912
01:22:05,510 –> 01:22:09,929
a lot of people from Georgia and other parts
of the South and I always could tell without

913
01:22:09,929 –> 01:22:14,810
them even telling me not because of an accent
or anything like that but because when we

914
01:22:14,810 –> 01:22:21,510
would sit down for lunch and they would order
iced tea they would specify any sweetened

915
01:22:21,510 –> 01:22:28,590
iced tea and you don’t have to say that anywhere
else here anywhere else yeah I was like oh

916
01:22:28,590 –> 01:22:35,560
you’re free yeah so the palette bear is much
sweeter for sure yeah and we do have one Winery

917
01:22:35,560 –> 01:22:45,409
uh here it’s the Buckley Winery uh and they
make a an apple wine which is dry crisp and

918
01:22:45,409 –> 01:22:53,120
very delightful cool uh yeah it’s it’s it’s
uh done with a lot out of Georgia fruit too

919
01:22:53,120 –> 01:23:01,690
so very nice just to clarify if you’re familiar
do you know is this grape juice and apple

920
01:23:01,690 –> 01:23:09,250
juice because apple is kind of mean both sometimes
it’s it’s a little both I think I think there’s

921
01:23:09,250 –> 01:23:17,310
uh probably grape and apple with you know
in making this wine yes got it I uh we’ve

922
01:23:17,310 –> 01:23:22,440
been trying to keep up with The Californians
uh is how I see it for what it’s worth I’m

923
01:23:22,440 –> 01:23:27,060
born and raised in Southern California uh
and what I’m noticing in the Sonoma area in

924
01:23:27,060 –> 01:23:33,550
the you know wine country of California you
also have a handful of cider makers popping

925
01:23:33,550 –> 01:23:40,159
up and they they attempt to self-describe
themselves as Rebels um and and you know they’re

926
01:23:40,159 –> 01:23:44,820
they’re non-wine makers they’re making alternative
alcoholic beverages and they’re not sourcing

927
01:23:44,820 –> 01:23:51,610
grain from the Midwest or anything like that
and so you’ve got these uh uh Folks at Tilted

928
01:23:51,610 –> 01:23:56,010
shed is really who I’m referencing um who
are making a bunch of hybrid things where

929
01:23:56,010 –> 01:24:00,510
they’re doing co-fermentations of grapes and
apples they’re doing co-fermentations of plums

930
01:24:00,510 –> 01:24:06,380
and apples and they’re doing it on dry Farm
fruit and uh uh no you know no irrigation

931
01:24:06,380 –> 01:24:10,370
whatever it is that’s showing up in the land
that kind of framework and they’re making

932
01:24:10,370 –> 01:24:16,130
Boutique bottles of amazing uh fermented beverage
and you can call it wine because it’s alcohol

933
01:24:16,130 –> 01:24:22,020
from fruit you can call it a hybrid wine because
it’s alcohol from from apples and grapes uh

934
01:24:22,020 –> 01:24:26,850
but there’s a a number of definitions that
are being broken right now by cider makers

935
01:24:26,850 –> 01:24:33,710
who are putting novel Notions out into the
world Finn River does some of that uh we don’t

936
01:24:33,710 –> 01:24:39,921
sell it broadly it’s part of our club uh I
will shamelessly pitch um yes thank you it

937
01:24:39,921 –> 01:24:44,440
is quite Punk um I will shamelessly pitch
that we put our new releases into our club

938
01:24:44,440 –> 01:24:48,690
first um and that’s the framework there we’re
going to show you the best of what we got

939
01:24:48,690 –> 01:24:54,890
uh uh in our club members to make sure that
they’re seeing the avant-garde of our cider

940
01:24:54,890 –> 01:25:02,600
production uh but in that same framework we’re
we put out I think I bought in 300 gallons

941
01:25:02,600 –> 01:25:07,780
of rusan grape juice from the Yakima Valley
this last year and we co-fermented that with

942
01:25:07,780 –> 01:25:13,830
Perry pears nobody really knows what Perry
pears are they’re not broad spread it’s not

943
01:25:13,830 –> 01:25:18,020
a consumer concept that people understand
these are weird little pears that we grow

944
01:25:18,020 –> 01:25:21,460
because we make weird little batches of wine
out of weird little pears and then we tell

945
01:25:21,460 –> 01:25:25,840
everybody about them like it’s bizarre and
instead we’re going to combine them with grapes

946
01:25:25,840 –> 01:25:31,630
and then we’re going to tell you about that
um and so in in that framework yeah you bet

947
01:25:31,630 –> 01:25:36,219
um we’re playing the game whether it be peaches
whether it be pears and grapes together there’s

948
01:25:36,219 –> 01:25:41,880
a framework for it and you know who doesn’t
have the like bureaucratic binds that the

949
01:25:41,880 –> 01:25:49,280
beer world and the wine world have cider world
yeah we have freedom Testament to what the

950
01:25:49,280 –> 01:25:54,480
question was that Suzanne posed earlier is
like how important is it in this kind of relatively

951
01:25:54,480 –> 01:26:00,530
nascent industry in the United States at least
of having the freedom to really kind of uh

952
01:26:00,530 –> 01:26:05,389
let producers come into their own before they
start slapping labels and creating definitions

953
01:26:05,389 –> 01:26:11,469
that are restrictive and I think it’s a really
important kind of point in time for The Cider

954
01:26:11,469 –> 01:26:17,940
making industry to like take a breath like
I know it’s not necessarily super helpful

955
01:26:17,940 –> 01:26:24,640
for the consumers right now to not have everything
set in stone but it really isn’t going to

956
01:26:24,640 –> 01:26:33,080
allow for the creativity that will potentially
make some really cool stuff um yeah I mean

957
01:26:33,080 –> 01:26:37,199
Andrew if you’re familiar with tilted shed
you might be also familiar with a winery that’s

958
01:26:37,199 –> 01:26:42,860
doing a similar thing in the other direction
yeah um kibble stock sellers also in Sonoma

959
01:26:42,860 –> 01:26:48,170
they make a gravanyan Blanc so grabbing scene
apples with sauvignon blanc it’s quite fun

960
01:26:48,170 –> 01:26:52,990
yeah yeah good stuff they do cool stuff for
sure The Californians are super fond of that

961
01:26:52,990 –> 01:27:01,300
Gravenstein Apple they do they do seem to
think it’s amazing yes [Laughter] yeah uh

962
01:27:01,300 –> 01:27:08,889
I I’ve seen that and uh to the same notion
like there’s a framework for novelty um and

963
01:27:08,889 –> 01:27:13,199
there’s a framework for experimentation and
then there’s Connor stewardship and so how

964
01:27:13,199 –> 01:27:20,000
do you walk the line between not facilitating
a waste of your time and a waste of your money

965
01:27:20,000 –> 01:27:24,420
as well as facilitating the creativity um
and so there’s I feel like there’s a commitment

966
01:27:24,420 –> 01:27:30,270
there and that is where brand recognition
and brand identity comes back into it uh and

967
01:27:30,270 –> 01:27:37,000
and relationship and so you know I don’t necessarily
trust every Cider Company out there to be

968
01:27:37,000 –> 01:27:41,030
making something that I think is going to
be amazing uh because their cider maker came

969
01:27:41,030 –> 01:27:45,810
up with some novel combination that blows
my mind uh I don’t know that it’s going to

970
01:27:45,810 –> 01:27:50,619
taste good is it worth my money I’m at the
same uh question about you know 90 of the

971
01:27:50,619 –> 01:27:55,510
bottles of wine that I’m looking at in the
grocery store uh I don’t have a relationship

972
01:27:55,510 –> 01:28:00,440
with the winery itself and so I’m guessing
about the wines that they’re communicating

973
01:28:00,440 –> 01:28:04,110
you know so how are they communicating with
me when I’m there what’s on the label and

974
01:28:04,110 –> 01:28:11,440
why and all of that plays out for cider as
well uh and so you know setting expectations

975
01:28:11,440 –> 01:28:17,270
cider is Young that’s very much true and there
isn’t a lot of standardization and sometimes

976
01:28:17,270 –> 01:28:22,780
you get something wild and you’re like this
is this is not for me um and that’s great

977
01:28:22,780 –> 01:28:28,540
and you should I I would encourage you to
see that I guess as a growth potential or

978
01:28:28,540 –> 01:28:35,060
a a space of exploration that feels amazing
um as opposed to a space of disappointment

979
01:28:35,060 –> 01:28:40,710
um and and wasting uh and so you know so long
as they’re not uh perpetrating something against

980
01:28:40,710 –> 01:28:45,760
you the the notion of someone presenting something
new to your palette something new to your

981
01:28:45,760 –> 01:28:51,880
brain space that feels powerful and I think
cider has open space for that to occur uh

982
01:28:51,880 –> 01:28:55,810
both in the consumer the you know the customer
that’s going to be consuming it as well as

983
01:28:55,810 –> 01:29:01,540
in the fermenter I try and walk that line
myself we are now a legacy company uh we’ve

984
01:29:01,540 –> 01:29:07,330
been around for more than 10 years and we’re
Old-Timers in The Cider industry yeah for

985
01:29:07,330 –> 01:29:16,080
sure some of the OG um about cider is also
very old right of our country really so it’s

986
01:29:16,080 –> 01:29:21,219
it’s an interesting dichotomy that this industry
kind of has um hey we’d be happy to stick

987
01:29:21,219 –> 01:29:24,630
around and chat with you guys a little bit
more but just want to be respectful of everyone’s

988
01:29:24,630 –> 01:29:30,960
time um and realize that uh we somehow are
90 minutes in all of a sudden at the end of

989
01:29:30,960 –> 01:29:35,679
the 90 minutes time flies when you’re having
fun and talk Insider so thank you to all of

990
01:29:35,679 –> 01:29:42,389
you who are here and Andrew for your time
yeah chatting here with us about Finn River

991
01:29:42,389 –> 01:29:49,010
so remarkable such great storytelling great
um we can’t wait to the next time we could

992
01:29:49,010 –> 01:29:55,659
hang out with you and maybe it’ll be in person
yeah absolutely we’ll come escape the Arizona

993
01:29:55,659 –> 01:30:00,070
Yeah we actually have to head out we’ve got
a couple things to do tonight but before we

994
01:30:00,070 –> 01:30:07,239
go I just wanted to say my sister lives in
Mukilteo Washington which is outside of Seattle

995
01:30:07,239 –> 01:30:11,530
so we’ve already been like mapping out I like
already sent your guys’s location to her and

996
01:30:11,530 –> 01:30:16,980
we’ve been like mapping out like how can we
make a trip over to you guys the next time

997
01:30:16,980 –> 01:30:21,520
I’m up there because it looks like if we include
a ferry it’s only like an hour and a half

998
01:30:21,520 –> 01:30:26,840
or like two hours okay let me clarify it’s
gonna be two hours to two and a half hours

999
01:30:26,840 –> 01:30:35,410
from anywhere the ferry system is uh problematic
at best um and if you need help finding lodging

1000
01:30:35,410 –> 01:30:41,070
out here you should I put my email into the
chat it’s Andrew at Finn River um it can be

1001
01:30:41,070 –> 01:30:45,480
complicated we are out here it’s worth it
there’s a lot of other things to see there’s

1002
01:30:45,480 –> 01:30:51,219
cool breweries there’s amazing Lakes there’s
incredible mountains yes come visit however

1003
01:30:51,219 –> 01:30:57,369
um doing it as a day trip back and forth um
pick a weekday don’t trust the fairies um

1004
01:30:57,369 –> 01:31:01,130
I’m trying to think of like a parallel in
the world it’s like Subways in New York they

1005
01:31:01,130 –> 01:31:06,730
go down all the time no the ferries are just
problematic to build life around um in so

1006
01:31:06,730 –> 01:31:12,091
many ways but at the same point in time good
advice come on now send me an email if you

1007
01:31:12,091 –> 01:31:16,270
need help planning like I got that kind of
space and time and if I don’t I’ll liaise

1008
01:31:16,270 –> 01:31:23,560
you to someone in a Finn River who can uh
support General travel uh advice that kind

1009
01:31:23,560 –> 01:31:31,220
of thing um maybe we’ll join yeah we’ll all
just have a little SipScout party live and

1010
01:31:31,220 –> 01:31:34,969
in person out there if we’re gonna have taking
a ferry that’s more fun with friends right

1011
01:31:34,969 –> 01:31:40,920
yeah we’re all just hanging out together the
Puget Sound fairies are like the opposite

1012
01:31:40,920 –> 01:31:49,750
of Mussolini yeah you did not run on time
and never will yeah but often they serve pretty

1013
01:31:49,750 –> 01:31:55,090
good beer in the galley um and so you what
what time you need to pass you can pass it

1014
01:31:55,090 –> 01:32:00,760
well with good friends um uh and I appreciate
that aspect yeah awesome well thank you so

1015
01:32:00,760 –> 01:32:05,159
much it was so nice to meet you and it was
so great to learn about cider from you so

1016
01:32:05,159 –> 01:32:10,270
we appreciate all of you guys it’s so good
to see you thank you Danica have a great night

1017
01:32:10,270 –> 01:32:16,940
thank you so much Andrew we really appreciate
your time oh yeah piece of cake yeah thank

1018
01:32:16,940 –> 01:32:24,410
you for all the information it was great yeah
I put some Notions uh Reese’s Cider Company

1019
01:32:24,410 –> 01:32:30,330
down there uh in the chat um if you don’t
know of it it’s not too far away all right

1020
01:32:30,330 –> 01:32:35,120
yeah I didn’t know about Reese’s I have not
been there yet they’ve they’ve not been open

1021
01:32:35,120 –> 01:32:42,250
that long but uh but it’s on my list to go
go visit I’ve seen three emails from them

1022
01:32:42,250 –> 01:32:47,440
in general in the world of cidermaker people
uh and they seem to be putting together something

1023
01:32:47,440 –> 01:32:52,270
that is focused on paying attention to the
juice uh and and that they are real people

1024
01:32:52,270 –> 01:32:56,690
crafting a real thing uh so if you don’t like
it you get to hold them accountable for it

1025
01:32:56,690 –> 01:33:01,130
because they are solely responsible for what
it is that you’re going to taste they’ve been

1026
01:33:01,130 –> 01:33:08,170
growing apples in this region for probably
over 75 years I would bet or fermentation

1027
01:33:08,170 –> 01:33:11,770
isn’t that difficult you know people been
doing this for hundreds of years they ought

1028
01:33:11,770 –> 01:33:17,620
to be able to get it right exactly by accident
thanks for coming out tonight Greg thanks

1029
01:33:17,620 –> 01:33:23,270
all right everyone have a great evening we’ll
talk to you soon and next week next month

1030
01:33:23,270 –> 01:33:27,610
is wine and chocolate and we’ll have some
fun two days after Valentine’s Day on this

1031
01:33:27,610 –> 01:33:28,980
again and we’ll see you then

1032
01:33:28,980 –> 01:33:29,489
[Applause] [Music]